KE or CE

[Squirrels]

all ive been able to pick up is that KE shoots farther and usually does more damage except at longer distance and that CE shoots alittle shorter with alittle less power but it has more power at long distances then KE. So which would be better for sniper? Or does it depend on what your fighting and from how far away? BTW i use a gator style sniper and curently use CE on the SC200's. :P

[sledge2594]

CE

[InsomniacsDream]

Depends on the situation and your play style...

If your a "True-Snipe", CE is where it's at...

If your a "Strip-Snipe", KE is your deal.

This could also be called a support snipe, as nothing throws off your aim/rhythm more than being stopped by some KE rounds, just isn't expected and REALLY throws your aim off... You were leading with your movement, when suddenly that movement stopped... now it's time to readjust, and readjust again :P

[djriddle]

CE rounds use chemical explosive warheads that do the same damage no matter the range where as KE rounds use kenetic energy ammunition that relies on velocity to do damage and which decreses with range. I like to shoot long when ever possible so the CE is my round.

[InsomniacsDream]

KE seems close to SABO (I think?) rounds... course if that was the case, where's the magnesium burning at temperatures in excess of 1000 degrees? So not realistic :(

[djriddle]

If the animation upon weapon selection is any indication, the KE ammo is APFSDS ammo - sabot - and the CE is HEAT, at least if you went by how tank ammo looks. Sabot that I know of is made of a super hard shell (tungsten alloy) and a depleted uranium core to increase kenetic energy significantly.
The inside of a tank looks like a used jack-o-lantern when it is hit with a DU sabot. This is because the combination of high velocity and high density create a fist sized toothpick of hypersonic metal with energies hard to comprehend that will make solid metal instantly into gas.
Upon striking a solid target friction between the two surfaces causes extreme heat and in the split second that the sabot is moving through the target, some of the metal of both the projectile and the tank itself become a vapor so hot that the crew, equipment and the inside of the tank itself are all one super heated gas which usually pops the turret off as well as detonating the ammo and fuel.

[InsomniacsDream]

Ah, Sabot, I thought my spelling was off :(

Anyways, I think it seems very close to this, though it is not only used in tanks. There are also several gunships (the apache has a swivel cannon mounted underneath it in one loadout design), which can use these, as well as certain AWACs planes, bombers, and Anti-Infantry/Light Vehicle command planes, which are more geared towards the weapons end of the deal. Transformers (yeah, I know), has a good view of one of these types of planes, though it is rather off... Normally, while the one side is loaded with heavy arms, the other will be loaded with light arms and several dismount ramps. The main tactic was to take airfields by landing it in an area, putting troops into a hangar or area where infantry would come from, and putting the anti-vehicle guns to the side where they can come from. Obviously this dosn't always work, but sweeping the area using both sides and circling the field can MAKE it work :P

[djriddle]

Insomniac, please stop putting acronyms together haphazardly and every thing you just said is gobble dee gunk! Not all of it mind you just the really good parts. (...when the Nazis bombed Pearl Harbor...)

[InsomniacsDream]

I use one acronym through the whole thing, and thats AWACs... wth is wrong with that, and WHERE did you learn history... I HATE history and even I'm offended at that statement...

[djriddle]

Animal House references...
AWACS are air-born radar trailers and there's another one the Air Force has that watches the ground with radar, but neither has guns, just lots of radios to call the entire US military.
There is an AC-130 that IS a gunship and does use a simpler radar as well as thermal and light amplification to see targets on the ground and it does not fire sabot ammo except maybe out of the 105mm howitzer aimed out the side next to the 40mm auto cannon and the 20mm DU firing six barrel machine guns. Oh and I think they can put a 10,000 lb bomb in the back and drop it with a parachute and even use an laser designator in tandem with the gun sight to put it on a target as small as a car (only one though).
Please don't tell me this reference come from a Michael Bay film about robots imitating consumer products?

[InsomniacsDream]

No, my reference comes from one I've stood inside. There were no seats, and it was rather cramped... kept hitting my head on pipes, loose wires, etc >.< Rather annoying...

The one I had seen actually had a missile pack mounted in the side, which had an exhaust nozzle out the bottom. It also had a swivel mounted machine gun underneath (one similiar to that of the F/A-18 Super Hornet, but with a far fewer Rounds Per Second firing rate (the regular is 600 per second), in order to conserve ammo. It also had one on top, in the rear, and two on the front for the pilot/co-pilot to use (each had control of one, or could designate control for both and the computer would compensate for range).... There was no howitzer, as the missile pack allowed for heavy weapons fire, without any need of extra stabilizers due to the recoiless nature of the missiles. They were high tracking, and capable of hitting any target needed. It was also capable of carying several bombs, and a couple of cluster bombs which dropped some of the newer in unmanned technology (As well as a ramp off the back for the possible launch of UCAVs and the new unmanned recon drone, designated the "RAPTOR")......

The movie was a reference for the lay-man, most people don't have the military access either of us do :P

[djriddle]

A 'round' is a single bullet and to my knowledge no weapon on this planet is capable of firing 600 bullets a second. Did you mean 600 rounds per minute (like the 20mm in the F-18 fighter) or maybe 6000 per munute like an A-10 gatling gun? Both my parents were military and I grew up surrouned by it, as if it were the most natural thing to know about - from pre-history to tomorrow...

[Spottedpanther]

it's been a while since I used KE...the effect of halting the enemy is one of my favorite effects...priceless if you're fighting a scout or soldier and have a heat seeker on your team. They're done, lol.

[InsomniacsDream]

600r/s, 1200 Stock ammunition, allows for 2 seconds of concentrated fire...

Yeah, sounds crazy dosn't it? It's a mini-gun inside of the nose capsule, and I'm not talking an F-18, I'm talking an F/A-18E4 (I believe, it may have been the E3 or E5 that was the gunnery testing platform... I can't remember off the top of my head). My grandfather works on the Super Hornet exclusively, and is very high up in the engineering department at Boeing... He actually got to work on one of the capsule programs (Mercury I believe, not Apollo 13 :P), which is pretty cool.

But yes, 600 rounds per second is accurate...

[Squirrels]

Theres actually things now that fire a 1,000,000 a sec its not a regular gun more of a turret style thing.It's supposed to be some new way of loading the next round saw it on discovery a couple weeks ago lol.

[ixnaydude]

Theres actually things now that fire a 1,000,000 a sec its not a regular gun more of a turret style thing.It's supposed to be some new way of loading the next round saw it on discovery a couple weeks ago lol.

I think that the weapon system is called 'Metal Storm'. I saw something that was akin to a box with a bunch of barrels, similar to those missile launchers that are usually seen mounted on backs of vehicles.
Here's a link to their site: http://www.metalstorm.com/


Ixnaydude

[InsomniacsDream]

It's a possible new firing system, however it requires the ability to swap out barrels to be used effectively... So basically it could only be used on large "hard" targets, ships, bunkers, tanks (possibly), and certain anti-aircraft vehicles which do not require a great deal of durability, and firing ability is of the utmost importance...

Anyways... It's possible to get up to a million RPS, but its rare and not exactly effective at the moment... It would be possible to mount these on an aircraft if you could find some way to reload the barrles, swap them out, and then reload it again... hey... like a revolver... why aren't I working at boeing or something? :P

So yeah, it's possible for 600 RPS, but it's hard...

[djriddle]

Metal Storm!... Those crazy Australians. Yeah that thing looks like a big box of loose bowels waiting to happen! It might eventually include a semi intelligent computer capable of judging whether to fire 1 or 10,000 bullets at a target based on several senses such as sight, hearing, feeling vibrations and even smell!

[InsomniacsDream]

The question on everyones mind is though...

WHEN THE :):):):) DO YOU NEED TO FIRE 1,000,000 BULLETS AT INFANTRY!??!

[djriddle]

Well it could... I mean... that is... the Swiss might need one to make and huge Swiss cheese! Seriously folks this thing could hurt tanks and planes and know if your were chewing the right kind of gum.

[xHOGUEx]

For anti air would be good. Or put that :):):):) on the gunship.

[InsomniacsDream]

Or you could just fire a single, larger round, and kill it instantly from a longer range... there's just not enough reason for it to actually use it :S Perhaps on smaller scales as I said before, definitely not as an infantry weapon (though I could be wrong), but possibly vehicular mounts could catch on...

[xHOGUEx]

It dose seem to much, doesn't it?

I'm all for bad :):):) weapons, but come on.
[maybe for a fear factor, would you want to rush a target that can shoot 1,000,000 rounds a millisecond?]

[InsomniacsDream]

Well it's a second, but w/e...

[djriddle]

It doesn't really get reloded so much as you take the shroud off it and put it on another box of bullets so I see the ammo as being the limitting part (especially if Asia keeps making chips cheaper and cheaper) so you'd just drop it off the back of a flat bed near a church or school or hospital (where ever it'll do the most good) and let the antennas deploy! At least the only practical thing I can see to do since the volume of the ammo is the biggest part of the weapon system. A new proximity deterrant just about the time the land mine was becoming blase.

[ixnaydude]

I think that it's largely focused on area denial more than anything else. If you got a chance to look at the videos, you'll see that it's scaled down quite a bit - on robot treads too! It possibly would be a land version of the Navy's Phalanx CWIS. Mount MetalStorm around a base's perimeter. I would imagine that since 40mm HE/explosive rounds are being used, that the necessity of firing 1M rounds/sec is just a selling point of it's capabilities and expandability but not 'war' practical.

Ix