Improve my ghetto sniper

[Pherdnut]

I've got a six-shot Sabre Hound with no Morskoj parts that shoots pretty straight. Wonder if you guys could give me some insight as to how tight of a shot grouping I've got with it because it's the best I've pulled off so far. I've read Zaha's stuff and this kind of breaks his rules somewhat but I can't seem to do better than this.

It has two triples of Sabres attached to a Brooke under a Nobili which is hooked up to an Isba. If looking from the hound's right side, something like this:
00000000____
0000==/Nobili\
000//00\____0/
00//00/Brooke\
0//000\______/ <----3 vertical sabres attached to each side of Brooke=
==RFZ-RJ-2=
00000###
0000###
000##
0####

It's unlike anything else I've seen because the firing order of the guns is like this and they're vertical:

00__
0/000\
/00000\
\0000A/
0\___/
0/000\
/00000\
\00000/
0\_B_/
0/000\
/00000\
\C0000/
0\___/

That would be the hound's left side (player's right if looking head on at the design screen) with a mirror image on the right. It's like a very slight wing if you consider the actual barrels. I've tried this:

00__
0/000\
/00000\
\A0000/
0\___/
0/000\
/00000\
\B0000/
0\___/
0/000\
/00000\
\C0000/
0\___/

It just doesn't seem to work as well even though all barrels are angled in towards the center of gravity. It's as if is the recoil sets the shots up better for straight shooting the first way.

Could somebody more experienced give this a whirl and tell me what they think of the shot grouping? Also, how could I make this thing faster? I used the 5-slot stability booster and I'm not happy with the speed at all. Do you have to pay for that 3-slot Morksoj stability chip download? I thought I got all the free stuff but I have some credits.

Edit: Ugh... freakin' space autoformatting.

[InsomniacsDream]

There are no downloadable chips, though I really do wish there was a 4 slot and the 5 slot gave more stability >.>

Send me an FR, I'm not entirely sure what you've got going here, probably because your drawing got skewed ;) I'll help you as best I can, and remember you can join BioHazard and I'll help you out :)

[Pherdnut]

Yeah, I fixed it up with zeroes but I'm not sure that helped much. Look for A,B, and C for firing order and position.

[InsomniacsDream]

Ah, thats better. Well what you have there is right on with what most would think would happen. Because your recoil pulls your guns outside, the further outside to the further inside (thus, the wing), the better your shot will be. Your design works better than the one with all the barrels tilted inside is because the recoil moves each gun into place. If you had them all inside, the first shot may have less recoil, but the second barrel starts from where the first is, but then gets recoiled outside, which moves it farther out than if the first gun were to start outside, and it slowly moved in. Part of this is gun-cams, part of this is where the bullet originates...

Hope that helps.

[Pherdnut]

Alright so would this work best for wing coming off the side of the same build?

--------------___
-------------/-1--\
--------___/------\
-------/----\------/
--___/2-----\___/
-/----\------/
/------\___/
\3-----/
-\___/


And how the crap do you get this formation shooting straight? I've tried every combination I can think of and got better results from my vertical line.

--___
-/----\
/------\___
\------/----\
-\___/------\
-/----\------/
/------\___/
\------/
-\___/

[Runegrace]

According to your diagram, you're using RFZ-type legs. Try something with better stability to get a triangular formation to work. And just remember the basic principle of getting your guns as close as possible to the leg connection joint to reduce the lever arm for the recoil.

[Pherdnut]

According to your diagram, you're using RFZ-type legs. Try something with better stability to get a triangular formation to work. And just remember the basic principle of getting your guns as close as possible to the leg connection joint to reduce the lever arm for the recoil.

Until I can get to Morskoj, I think that's the best I can do if I want 6 Sabres with extended ammo. Used a Brooke with the lighter of two light generators that would make it possible in the configuration I've currently got.

[Pherdnut]

I sucked it up and ditched half the Sabres in favor of Epees without the extended ammo so I could put the high stability RJs on (the big booted ones, not the RFZs). It's freaking awesome and waiting for the Sabres to reload is a lot less boring since I can usually squeeze off a couple Epee shots.

I don't see why there's so little love for the Epees. The only other cannon I've used successfully is the Sabre, the most powerful one, but it still seems like the Epees get the job done.

I'm kind of tempted to see if I can get a 9-shot Himmis going. 3 triple shots in a row might make those things a little more worthwile.

[Flipside]

I sucked it up and ditched half the Sabres in favor of Epees without the extended ammo so I could put the high stability RJs on (the big booted ones, not the RFZs). It's freaking awesome and waiting for the Sabres to reload is a lot less boring since I can usually squeeze off a couple Epee shots.

I don't see why there's so little love for the Epees. The only other cannon I've used successfully is the Sabre, the most powerful one, but it still seems like the Epees get the job done.

I'm kind of tempted to see if I can get a 9-shot Himmis going. 3 triple shots in a row might make those things a little more worthwile.


Epee rounds move really S-L-O-W at range you can juke them matrix style if you're on RJs.


I don't know you don't have them yet, but sc-200s are where it's at for your all purpose sniping needs.


I've used epees, I like the group but they just move too slow to be effective at range.


Flip

[Pherdnut]

Ahhh. Is that the advantage of Fleurets? Haven't seen a reason to try them yet aside from having a Hound called Fleuret's Syndrome.

[Flipside]

Ahhh. Is that the advantage of Fleurets? Haven't seen a reason to try them yet aside from having a Hound called Fleuret's Syndrome.

I can't remember much about the Fleurets, they might have a tad more velocity but it would need to be tested.


Give it a shot and see how they work for you.

[InsomniacsDream]

No, same velocity, just less recoil... Somewhere between the Himmis and the Epee's, as well as a much shorter stop time (so you basically NEVER stop moving when you are running and fire... pretty sweet IMO...)

Anyways, Epee's are great if you can lead them. They're not that much slower than 200's, but still rather easy. They have great range, and a great reload rate, which is their only saving grace... they're more of a mid-range weapon, even though they have a much farther range than the 200's... Go figure :S

[Flipside]

No, same velocity, just less recoil... Somewhere between the Himmis and the Epee's, as well as a much shorter stop time (so you basically NEVER stop moving when you are running and fire... pretty sweet IMO...)

Anyways, Epee's are great if you can lead them. They're not that much slower than 200's, but still rather easy. They have great range, and a great reload rate, which is their only saving grace... they're more of a mid-range weapon, even though they have a much farther range than the 200's... Go figure :S


I think the best thing about epees is that a spotter might see you and report back to his squad that "one of the baddies is running Sabres..." :lol:


They shoot great but man at long range it's like dodging howie fire :wink:

[InsomniacsDream]

Mmmm depends. With Epee's the pause howies and cannons give is still long enough that you can hit them, so long as you fire RIGHT after they do. Thats their main issue, is you have to have good reflexes...

I myself am one of the few surviving "Epee Masters"... not a great title, considering there's maybe 5 people who actually use them effectively, and thus with no competition, I dub myself master :P

Seriously though, they have plenty of use in the war nowadays... but they pale in use for a general purpose compared to SC200's

They're a specialized weapon, only really usable if you use the correct tactics to meet the weapon... People hate changing their tactics to the weapon, so they normally say heck with it...

They have utility, but it's a specialized one ;)

[Runegrace]

The way I see it,

Epee - great starting sniper, with good power, range, and reload for moderate weight. I think just about everyone starting off with sniping should use these things.

Flueret - less power and more weight...less recoil. I never really saw a need for these, but if they actually reduce your lag time after the shot, that may be a reason to use them instead of Epees.

SC200 - the most potent sniper for it's weight that you can get. Good range, power, and ammo count. If you can control for it's recoil and weight, these things are golden.

Saber - the one-shot king. Horrible reload and ammo count mean that you HAVE to hit what you're aiming at. Should only be used by expert snipers...and even then, some may instead prefer the SC200 for the ability to kill more hounds.

Between the Saber and the SC200, it mostly comes down to: Do you want to deal lots of damage all in one shot, or do you want to even more damage over an extended period of time? I have a 6-Epee hound on Meade legs that also fairs well in melee combat...the high rotation of the treads and the lower reload of the Epees make it so you can stand toe-to-toe with a lot of hounds if you can aim without the zoom (mini-cam or even just looking at your barrels).

[InsomniacsDream]

Fleurets have less kickback, which means less stop-time. It's very miniscule, though pre-patch it was a big deal. SC200's stopped you cold, same way as cannons do now. Fleurets worked more like SC200's now, where you could keep running without once stopping.

Now, you don't even get the stutter step with Fleurets, though it's basically useless...

[assassinloki090]

Fleurets have less kickback, which means less stop-time. It's very miniscule, though pre-patch it was a big deal. SC200's stopped you cold, same way as cannons do now. Fleurets worked more like SC200's now, where you could keep running without once stopping.

Now, you don't even get the stutter step with Fleurets, though it's basically useless...


FYI. I've tested Epee's and Fleurets many times, and I think the Fleurets are actually slower to a small extent.

[Homerclease24]

Try this:




_ _
/1\ /1\
\_/_ _\_/
/2\ /2\
\_/_ ______ _\_/
/3\ /Brooke\ /3\
\_/ \_____/ \_/

That should get your sabres shooting nicely.

[Homerclease24]

As for the triangle setup:




_
_/2\
/1\_/
\_/3\
\_/

[InsomniacsDream]

Is there some sort of trick to the wing I don't know about? Whenever I use them they always seem to have a very finicky distance... Could be that I rotate them all inside? o.0

[Homerclease24]

for the wing rotate them outside, for the triangle, hit me up in freebattle and ill show, i cant explain it really.

[InsomniacsDream]

I know triangle, just can't do wing... I've never liked it because it seems so finicky, that may be why :S

[Pherdnut]

I don't know the ideal triangle rotation. It's why I put the time into making this so somebody could cut, paste, and insert rotation locations if they so desired.

--___
-/----\
/------\___
\------/----\
-\___/------\
-/----\------/
/------\___/
\------/
-\___/

:wink:

[InsomniacsDream]

--___
-/----\
/------\___
\------/----\
-\_2_/------\
-/-3--\------/
/------\1__/
\------/
-\___/

[Pherdnut]

Thank you Insomniacs.

With this I can build a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude forged in the spirits and traditions of our ancestors. You have our gratitude.

[InsomniacsDream]

Say wha? I thought you were going with pure wheeled hounds with different loadouts for hound destruction, and the occasional base kill...

[Homerclease24]

Actually i use:


--___
-/----\
/------\___
\------/1---\
-\_2_/------\
-/-3--\------/
/------\___/
\------/
-\___/

But its about the same, im just more used to this one. Try them both, i shoot better with this one but everyones different.

[Pherdnut]

Very cool. I'll try both.

[Pherdnut]

Wow. I just built a Saber Cat by accident. I mean, I looked at them once and got the notion to push stuff behind an Isba spacer from that, but I used the exact same generator, cockpit and legs (didn't even think they were on RJ401s when I looked at them). The only difference is that I stuck with my vertical configuration for the guns because I didn't have this post handy at that moment.

[BioHazardjrp]

I use a modified Sabre combo.

One one side of the pit behind the spacer are the 3 sabres like this

--___
-/----\
/------\___
\------/----\
-\_2_/------\
-/-3--\------/
/------\1__/
\------/
-\___/

and on the other side I use 3 sc200's in a wing formation like this:

---------------___
--------------/---1\
--------___ /------\
-------/---2\ ------/
--___/------\ ___/
-/---3\------/
/------\___/
\------/
-\___/

Sometimes my wing is put simply with the rotation unchanged (straight up).

This build is slow but gives me the ability to have the 19 rounds for "sloppy shootin" and the 8 rounds for "deadly shootin".

But in free battle I use the typical Sbre tooth design with either a grenade or heat rocket added.

Any thought from you more experienced snipers on the "Wing" rotation?