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Thread: Why people hate Sally?

  1. #11
    Senior Member DracoMence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clocktopus View Post
    Sally was not a Mary-Sue, you're thinking of Sonic.

    During SatAM, Sally needed other characters more than they relied on her. The closest trope to describe her is the Red-Ogre-Blue-Ogre between her and Sonic; they have differing personalities that compliment each other.

    If we're getting into the comics, somewhat different ballgame. At the beginning all was well, then when she broke things off with Sonic in the STUPIDEST, MOST FAN-RAGING-INDUCINGIST thing I've ever seen, things began to change. Sonic was always wrong and she was always right, but she was still more bland than anything. This likely stemmed from the fact that they needed to reboot everything after the Great Pender%^#k and didn't really have an idea what to do with her.
    I've seen a bit of SatAM and from what I can tell, she doesn't look or act like a Mary-Sue, the Freedom Fighters relied on others acquaintances too, then again I haven't seen all of the show, just like 5-6 episodes so I might be wrong.

    About that part of the comics..didn't she slapped him because of a choice? I don't recall that much (mainly because i don't read the comics) but people were really upset about that, looks like Sally is in a rough spot in what they wanna do with her to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsMyTurnNow93 View Post
    A lot of it probably comes from role conflict where two characters with a love interest role, designed for different adaptations of the franchise, both appear in a third adaptation. You had Amy from the games, and Sally from the early cartoons. Then the comics tried to squeeze both in. So you have Amy fans and Sally fans fighting over who should be with Sonic.

    Then add in even more love interest characters to the comics (e.g. Mina). Add in poor writing that ends up exaggerating the characters' flaws to give the shippers ammunition to attack the "opposing" ship.

    Personally I don't think Sonic should be about love triangles at all (the newer issues seemed to have moved away from that, at least, by downplaying romance AFAIK).

    I don't really dislike Sally as a character, but I still prefer Amy as being Sonic's potential love interest, particularly in the games. There's plenty of potential to explore the interaction between those two without introducing another character to create a love triangle and complicate things.

    If they did want to make Sally a game character I'd prefer that they don't make her a clear love interest to Sonic. Maybe do something similar to what they did with Sonic and Blaze in the Rush games if they want to do something with them.
    Having a third wheel or fourth wheel doesn't sound like a good idea,it almost (or most likely never) never ends up good,

    Its as I always say, romance doesn't bother me in any media, all they need to do is not too make a story out of it, make the characters had interactions that leaves to the spectator that says "ok,i see the potential,reasons,why and made research", make it into tiny scenes that don't take a lot of screentime (sort of like SatAM as far as i've seen) and I guess thats it, its like the Sonic and Blaze relationship, which I understand the potential and how their relationship has been getting closer,its all up to the people to see the reasons why certain characters are paired and see why they work and compliment, this is my issue with Amy in the games, even though she is a love interest in Sonic they never went beyond that or care, this comes from a once sonamy fan long ago.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Clocktopus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsMyTurnNow93 View Post
    Also I like how you say you don't care about shipping but your avatar is Sally kissing Sonic. Though I guess you mainly like Sally so you support that pairing but aren't really crazy about it.
    I like the character and I like the relationship, it always felt organic to me. I was always drawn to her, not in a weird sort of furry-type thing, but I found her attractive without being sexualized. She was brainy to the point of being a bit of a dork, a charismatic leader, while still dealing with her issues, and a strategist. As I grew into a teenager, I felt the relationship that they had was the type of relationship I wanted. The scenes of them kissing still make me wistful. Just sort of my ideal romance. That, and I just like the picture.


    Quote Originally Posted by ItsMyTurnNow93 View Post
    Now, if they did introduce Sally to the games, how would she fit in? Would she still be a princess? If so, where would her kingdom be? Would it be on Sonic's world (requiring an explanation on how we didn't see it before) or in another dimension (similar to Blaze)?
    I doubt they could keep her as a princess, but hell, they have a President of some random nation that came from nowhere, so sure? Ultimately, it would be up to the writing staff. I definitely feel she should be from the same world though. Otherwise, you'd need to find ways to work the character in. Lookin' at you Silver...
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by DracoMence View Post
    this is my issue with Amy in the games, even though she is a love interest in Sonic they never went beyond that or care, this comes from a once sonamy fan long ago.
    For Amy, I do like how she grew from the character she was in Sonic CD, from a damsel in distress love interest to a much stronger character. The main issues with her are:
    • They didn't develop the love interest part of her character very well or very much at all, and have barely developed her relationship with Sonic. Most of their character interaction in the games still consists of Amy adoring Sonic, or chasing Sonic, Sonic running away, and so on. This is something that could really use some more development, whether they become an actual couple to some extent or even just very close friends. Even Sonic X did a somewhat better job in this regard (despite the issues with her character in that show).
    • She hasn't been kicking butt nearly as much as in the older games. It's kind of getting to the point where all we see of Amy is either her Sonic infatuation or just filling a generic role.
    I played through Amy's portion of Sonic Forces, and enjoyed
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  4. #14
    Senior Member SMS Skull Leader's Avatar
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    I think it's because this is a normal reaction when a character that is neither the protagonist nor the villain gets to have more prominence and favoritism than both of them.

    Sally has always been a "pet character" from the creators of the SatAM cartoon, getting more focus and attention than not just the other characters in the show, bit even above game characters from the era like Tails, who spends most of the time inside a backpack.

    The Archie comic only made things worst because not only of how Sonic's character had to be morphed into something else that was Sonic only in name to make this wonderful relation work, but ho boy if you happened to be any of the other gorl characters that dared to show any interest in Sonic. Amy obviously was relatively safe because of her game status ( though this didn't prevent the character being mocked by the Sonally propoaganda machine with stunts such as the infamous cover of issue #222, among other crap they made and pulled off), but the rest where pretty much at the mercy of the Sonally shippers who on top where the guys running the show, comming up with very convenient ways to clear the way such as making Bunnie marry Antoine despite both characters hardly ever having shown an interest in each other, Fiona turning evil out of nowhere (actually, they did an amazing explanation: she finds it hot to be bad... Lmfao) and getting some of that hedgehog meat with Pender's doughnut steel character Scourge because apparently, Tails is not the only one who thinks that ANY Sonic will do. Also they got rid of Mina too, though I don't remember what move they pulled.

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  5. #15
    Senior Member DracoMence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsMyTurnNow93 View Post
    For Amy, I do like how she grew from the character she was in Sonic CD, from a damsel in distress love interest to a much stronger character. The main issues with her are:
    • They didn't develop the love interest part of her character very well or very much at all, and have barely developed her relationship with Sonic. Most of their character interaction in the games still consists of Amy adoring Sonic, or chasing Sonic, Sonic running away, and so on. This is something that could really use some more development, whether they become an actual couple to some extent or even just very close friends. Even Sonic X did a somewhat better job in this regard (despite the issues with her character in that show).
    • She hasn't been kicking butt nearly as much as in the older games. It's kind of getting to the point where all we see of Amy is either her Sonic infatuation or just filling a generic role.
    I mean yeah, pretty much, its like a routine you know, Amy is the only one showing affection, Sonic doesn't care, runs, Amy complains and the cycle repeats, this is why i gave up on them, even though there are people that likes them and wanna be a thing doesn't bother me even though i don't like that pair anymore, but for pete's sake, if they one day are going to do it, let them take their relationship step by step not because "SEGA says so in a twitter post".


    Quote Originally Posted by SMS Skull Leader View Post
    I think it's because this is a normal reaction when a character that is neither the protagonist nor the villain gets to have more prominence and favoritism than both of them.

    Sally has always been a "pet character" from the creators of the SatAM cartoon, getting more focus and attention than not just the other characters in the show, bit even above game characters from the era like Tails, who spends most of the time inside a backpack.

    The Archie comic only made things worst because not only of how Sonic's character had to be morphed into something else that was Sonic only in name to make this wonderful relation work, but ho boy if you happened to be any of the other gorl characters that dared to show any interest in Sonic. Amy obviously was relatively safe because of her game status ( though this didn't prevent the character being mocked by the Sonally propoaganda machine with stunts such as the infamous cover of issue #222, among other crap they made and pulled off), but the rest where pretty much at the mercy of the Sonally shippers who on top where the guys running the show, comming up with very convenient ways to clear the way such as making Bunnie marry Antoine despite both characters hardly ever having shown an interest in each other, Fiona turning evil out of nowhere (actually, they did an amazing explanation: she finds it hot to be bad... Lmfao) and getting some of that hedgehog meat with Pender's doughnut steel character Scourge because apparently, Tails is not the only one who thinks that ANY Sonic will do. Also they got rid of Mina too, though I don't remember what move they pulled.
    Sally has hatred because she's like the "mascot" of the comics and as such they're giving her way too much attention instead of characters like Knuckles or villians like i don't know Metal? That seems kinda wrong, but still even though both Sally and Amy have a similar trait regarding Sonic, do the comic creators weren't concern about the lots of attention to Sally and the big internet wars were happening?

  6. #16
    Senior Member SMS Skull Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DracoMence View Post
    Sally has hatred because she's like the "mascot" of the comics and as such they're giving her way too much attention instead of characters like Knuckles or villians like i don't know Metal? That seems kinda wrong, but still even though both Sally and Amy have a similar trait regarding Sonic, do the comic creators weren't concern about the lots of attention to Sally and the big internet wars were happening?
    Well, that depends if being the mascot means getting so much attention and favoritisms that it affects negatively every character in existance.

    Also I would be surprised if the people at Archie were unaware of the so called "shipping wars" since they themselves were pretty much the ones who were throwing wood into the fire by using an official publication licensed by Sega to show just oh how wonderful Sonally is and crap at anything that they considered to rival their oh so prescious OTP.

    *presses S to spit on the grave of Sonally now that the propaganda comic is over*

    Also while yeah, Sally and Amy are designed for that role by their respective creators, I feel that both are very different:

    * With Sonally, everything is set in such a convenient way that feels so fabricated that comes off as fake. Even Sonic's personality has to be twisted into a feik version that hardly resembles the original's personality. With this in mind, I find it hard to see any appeal.

    * With Sonamy, while it's pretty much something that will never happen but will always be teased one way or another because Status Quo and all that thing, at least has the decency of keeping Sonic in-character. Also unlike with Sonally, Amy has to actually pursue her dream of winning Sonic's heart and affection by going against the impossible odds, and never giving up because of this determination she has that can only be compared with that of Eggman. Plus, for a franchise about a character whose main trait is running around very fast, it makes perfect sense that the one girl that is in love with him has to give him a never ending chase.

    If you compare the two, Amy is the sympathetic underdog that you can't help but to cheer for while Sally is the girl who doesn't have to do any effort nor sacrifice to earn anything, Sonic's affection included, because everything is provided via a favoritism that the writers don't even try to hide.

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  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by DracoMence View Post
    I mean yeah, pretty much, its like a routine you know, Amy is the only one showing affection, Sonic doesn't care, runs, Amy complains and the cycle repeats, this is why i gave up on them, even though there are people that likes them and wanna be a thing doesn't bother me even though i don't like that pair anymore, but for pete's sake, if they one day are going to do it, let them take their relationship step by step not because "SEGA says so in a twitter post".
    Yeah, it should really be an incremental development. Create a plot line where the two of them need to interact more, such as having to work together to fight Eggman. Then we have a chance to explore the dynamics between them and see how it changes with experience. Don't just say "okay Sonic and Amy are a couple now". Don't just suddenly have their relationship completely changed offscreen with no explanation why the two characters are behaving differently around each other. Actually develop it as part of the story, and do it in a way that fits the overall franchise storyline about a speedy blue hedgehog and his friends battling a fat mad scientist with a big mustache.

    They should have been doing this ages ago. Not just Sonic and Amy, but developing their characters in general. One of the big issues I see with Sonic since Sonic Adventure is that they try to create serious, deep stories, but most of the characters lack much in the way of persistent character development. We see a game or two of Amy developing, then it's back to Amy doing nothing but obsessing over Sonic. We have Tails building up his independence, then back to Tails the sidekick, who now appears to be completely incompetent without Sonic. We have [character] the badass disrupting Eggman's plans or otherwise saving the world, and now [character] just stands on the sidelines, does a few things, and watches Sonic take care of all the action. The stories end up being treated as not credible. If you're going to have full-fledged stories, actually let the characters grow and develop. If you want to keep a running gag like Amy always chasing after Sonic, you can do that while still allowing the relationship between those two characters to develop and become more fleshed out beyond the running gag. If the characters are to be stagnant, then just make the stories minimal like in the classic games.

    By now Sonic and Amy should probably be close partners. Not necessarily romantic partners (Sonic probably isn't going for that, or at most he's taking it but not giving it), but it could be something like the relationship between Sonic and Tails.



    Even the comics had status quo issues when it came to relationships. Sonic and Sally became the main pairing because Sally was created to be in a relationship with Sonic. And in my opinion that's less interesting than seeing a relationship grow between two characters who start out having just met, like what we could have had with Sonic and Amy in the games.
    I played through Amy's portion of Sonic Forces, and enjoyed
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  8. #18
    Senior Member DracoMence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMS Skull Leader View Post
    Well, that depends if being the mascot means getting so much attention and favoritisms that it affects negatively every character in existance.


    Also I would be surprised if the people at Archie were unaware of the so called "shipping wars" since they themselves were pretty much the ones who were throwing wood into the fire by using an official publication licensed by Sega to show just oh how wonderful Sonally is and crap at anything that they considered to rival their oh so prescious OTP.


    *presses S to spit on the grave of Sonally now that the propaganda comic is over*


    Also while yeah, Sally and Amy are designed for that role by their respective creators, I feel that both are very different:


    * With Sonally, everything is set in such a convenient way that feels so fabricated that comes off as fake. Even Sonic's personality has to be twisted into a feik version that hardly resembles the original's personality. With this in mind, I find it hard to see any appeal.


    * With Sonamy, while it's pretty much something that will never happen but will always be teased one way or another because Status Quo and all that thing, at least has the decency of keeping Sonic in-character. Also unlike with Sonally, Amy has to actually pursue her dream of winning Sonic's heart and affection by going against the impossible odds, and never giving up because of this determination she has that can only be compared with that of Eggman. Plus, for a franchise about a character whose main trait is running around very fast, it makes perfect sense that the one girl that is in love with him has to give him a never ending chase.


    If you compare the two, Amy is the sympathetic underdog that you can't help but to cheer for while Sally is the girl who doesn't have to do any effort nor sacrifice to earn anything, Sonic's affection included, because everything is provided via a favoritism that the writers don't even try to hide.
    That would be so uncomfortable for any of the writers if they never knew about what was happening on the internet regarding this topic, but then again based on what i've been told its apparent that they were really Oblivious (Poke-pun, no? ok...)


    I decided to do a small research about this Sonally events on the comics and I got some mixed felings.
    While I do get why people were complaining about their relationship about how it was taking a lot of screentime and the famous slap scene which I did recall that it was a choice and it consisted on Sonic's freedom or her, when Sonic picked the first one she slapped him and from that moment I got to understand why people hated her, not just Sonamy shippers or Sally haters but also Sally's fan. The other side of the coin i've seen is Sonic's personality with Sally, yeah, he was acting not like his usual self but who wouldn't change a bit for a girl he loves? Some guys can act tough but have another personality that they haven't got the opportunity to show.


    Quote Originally Posted by ItsMyTurnNow93 View Post
    Yeah, it should really be an incremental development. Create a plot line where the two of them need to interact more, such as having to work together to fight Eggman. Then we have a chance to explore the dynamics between them and see how it changes with experience. Don't just say "okay Sonic and Amy are a couple now". Don't just suddenly have their relationship completely changed offscreen with no explanation why the two characters are behaving differently around each other. Actually develop it as part of the story, and do it in a way that fits the overall franchise storyline about a speedy blue hedgehog and his friends battling a fat mad scientist with a big mustache.


    They should have been doing this ages ago. Not just Sonic and Amy, but developing their characters in general. One of the big issues I see with Sonic since Sonic Adventure is that they try to create serious, deep stories, but most of the characters lack much in the way of persistent character development. We see a game or two of Amy developing, then it's back to Amy doing nothing but obsessing over Sonic. We have Tails building up his independence, then back to Tails the sidekick, who now appears to be completely incompetent without Sonic. We have [character] the badass disrupting Eggman's plans or otherwise saving the world, and now [character] just stands on the sidelines, does a few things, and watches Sonic take care of all the action. The stories end up being treated as not credible. If you're going to have full-fledged stories, actually let the characters grow and develop. If you want to keep a running gag like Amy always chasing after Sonic, you can do that while still allowing the relationship between those two characters to develop and become more fleshed out beyond the running gag. If the characters are to be stagnant, then just make the stories minimal like in the classic games.


    By now Sonic and Amy should probably be close partners. Not necessarily romantic partners (Sonic probably isn't going for that, or at most he's taking it but not giving it), but it could be something like the relationship between Sonic and Tails.






    Even the comics had status quo issues when it came to relationships. Sonic and Sally became the main pairing because Sally was created to be in a relationship with Sonic. And in my opinion that's less interesting than seeing a relationship grow between two characters who start out having just met, like what we could have had with Sonic and Amy in the games.
    If only they could do that, having Sonic's friends or more better known as acquaintances at this point, I like the idea that they are trying to get into dark stories (even though in many cases it doesn't do good to the villian *ahemInfiniteahem*) but it seems like they don't care when their characters had progression previously, for example Tails in SA1, he himself got to grow that Sonic will not always will be there for him and that he must fight without him, instead many years later and now in Forces he's a total wimp,they throwed his character development away, if they are focusing into dark storylines why not let the characters keep what they previously learned?


    What makes a pairing more interesting to me is that not neccesary has the concept of being a love-interest,that seems forced in most cases,this is the issue I have with Amy I don't think they would anytime soon let Sonic open up to Amy, its been a long time and there is no progression, no nothing, she's just there to serve his role as a love interest which the main character doesn't care, the way they have been treated is like a never ending dream, their interactions have been shallow and doesn't allow any sort of appreciation for her companionship, same with his pals Knuckles,Tails,etc, they're just sideline characters at this point.

  9. #19
    Senior Member the 120cxx's Avatar
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    I just see it as another shipping war & penders adding fuel to the fire in all directions.

    Might update.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Toni the Mink's Avatar
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    Just want to add the fandoms of Sally, Sonally, and sometimes SatAM in itself don't help...

    Granted, nearly every part of the Sonic fandom can be toxic except Sonaze because we're awesome *SHOT!*

    But the pro-Sally gang help fuel the flames of hate by not only insisting that she's perfect for Sonic (which in itself would be okay) but they need to downsize every other shipping for it.

    Why is Sally better than Amy? Look at SatAM! Sally keeps Sonic out of trouble and is a real go-getter princess warrior! Now look at Sonic X.... Amy is a b-word that threatens to murder any girl who who so much looks in Sonic's general direction.

    Kind of an unfair comparison when 1) You focus SOLEY on Sally's positive traits and Amy's negatives, and 2) Neither girl exists in each other's series!

    Anyone here remember the glory days of "Supporters For The TRUE Girl For Sonic" over at FUS? (Spoiler Alert, it's Sally...)

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