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Thread: SEGA All-Stars racing info thread

  1. #301
    Super Moderator Nuckles87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowLegend View Post



    lol alright I admit it, you caught me in a bad mood.

    To take off my "bitterness" goggles, I'll clarify; Sumo is a qualified developer; they're not lazy or incompetent. But as someone who was burned by VT:2009 (and yeah, I've been critical of them since that one)...I'm just hoping they can pull this game off. Though I apologize if I offended you, S0L (and I'm being honest about that) you have to understand that when a studio releases a game that may have disappointed, you'll have people skeptical about their future projects.

    Come now, Shadow, you've been saying this about Sumo for years. You said this about them last time around when Super Stars Tennis didn't have online play, and you harped on about it until the very end, despite the fact that I brought up the Sumo lacked the resources to do it. You do this plenty with developers who don't do a perfect or near perfect job on a game. And I've always argued with you about it, trying to tell you it's not as simple as you often make it out to be.

    That's why I decided to take some time out of my college studying (big tests coming up, man!) to come down here and see how this all played out. What S0L says, is basically what I've advocated for years. I could have brought up the same line up of games S0L did, and you would have argued me down with them all being ports and modifications that don't require any work, like you did last time around. And I wouldn't have blamed you for it, because neither of us know that much about the work that goes into a port.

    Certainly feels different when it comes from the development team your criticizing, huh? I suggest you take this to heart in the future. There are reasons I always like to give companies and people the benefit of the doubt, even if I often turn out wrong.

  2. #302
    Senior Member ShadowLegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuckles87 View Post
    Come now, Shadow, you've been saying this about Sumo for years. You said this about them last time around when Super Stars Tennis didn't have online play, and you harped on about it until the very end, despite the fact that I brought up the Sumo lacked the resources to do it. You do this plenty with developers who don't do a perfect or near perfect job on a game. And I've always argued with you about it, trying to tell you it's not as simple as you often make it out to be.

    That's why I decided to take some time out of my college studying (big tests coming up, man!) to come down here and see how this all played out. What S0L says, is basically what I've advocated for years. I could have brought up the same line up of games S0L did, and you would have argued me down with them all being ports and modifications that don't require any work, like you did last time around. And I wouldn't have blamed you for it, because neither of us know that much about the work that goes into a port.

    Certainly feels different when it comes from the development team your criticizing, huh? I suggest you take this to heart in the future. There are reasons I always like to give companies and people the benefit of the doubt, even if I often turn out wrong.
    lol Nux; I stand by my criticism for SST's lack of online play on the Wii. The Wii version should have had online play. I still think that to this day.

    I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove, man....

    It does feel "different" when it comes from a dev but look, I'm not going to back down; a game released should not have framerate issues. I'll reserve judgement on whether this will or not, but the point is that ...framerate issues (major ones) in a speed-based game, shouldn't happen. Hopefully they clear it up because this will most likely sell on Wii the best....so why not make sure it runs the best?

    And I don't think I ever said that ports don't require a lot of work...I'm sure they do, but that's not really an excuse.

    I was a bit too harsh and I apologized for it, but my point's still kinda valid...Wii games get the shaft, and Sumo's been guilty of it in the past. I hope this won't be a case of it, because it's NOT the Wii's fault. The Wii's capable of fast racers.
    Last edited by ShadowLegend; 11-28-2009 at 11:54 PM.

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  3. #303
    Senior Member Space Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowLegend View Post
    lol Nux; I stand by my criticism for SST's lack of online play on the Wii. The Wii version should have had online play. I still think that to this day.

    I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove, man....

    It does feel "different" when it comes from a dev but look, I'm not going to back down; a game released should not have framerate issues. I'll reserve judgement on whether this will or not, but the point is that ...framerate issues (major ones) in a speed-based game, shouldn't happen. Hopefully they clear it up because this will most likely sell on Wii the best....so why not make sure it runs the best?

    And I don't think I ever said that ports don't require a lot of work...I'm sure they do, but that's not really an excuse.

    I was a bit too harsh and I apologized for it, but my point's still kinda valid...Wii games get the shaft, and Sumo's been guilty of it in the past. I hope this won't be a case of it, because it's NOT the Wii's fault. The Wii's capable of fast racers.
    Wii doesn't deserve the best =P

    I'm sure the game will be fine though, if you don't like it when it's final, then don't get the Wii version.

  4. #304
    SUMO Digital
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    Ok Mr Legend, apology accepted :P

    You do have a valid point where people need to scope their games for the platform. That's why the Wii demo shown was running slow, we were (and still are!) in the process of optimising the art, the physics and other elements of the game for the Wii hardware.

    What we wanted to do - and the same's gone on in our other games, is ensure that if you bought the Wii version, you were getting the same game as the PS3 or 360 version. You think about it, we've attempted something that really is tricky on Wii. We've got unique characters and vehicles, huge tracks, loads of special effects and an All-Star move per character. That's quite a lot to hold in a console that has a fraction of the memory...!

    Mind you we're pulling it off on DS - so I beleive it's doable :P

    Online missing in SST Wii is one of those things we've never heard the end off. That's why it was top of my list of things to include on SSR. The truth of the matter is when we started SST, there was no online on Wii... It got announced mid-project, and by that point it was a massive risk to add it. You've got to remember each game has a budget and timeframe, and adding the online would have meant the game not meeting either.

    Especially when if you consider at the time, it wasn't even guarenteed that there would be an audience for it either. We'd already decided the important thing on Wii was ensuring it was easy to get into and set up multiplayer games for relatively in-experienced players (and here, I[m thinking of my parents! - they'd never owned a console in their life till the Wii!). Certainly you can complain SST didn't have online, but I don't think you can complain the quality wasn't there elsewise.

    VT2009 was a tricky project for us, especially on Wii. You've got to remember that it was the first time we'd implemented support for new tech (so the Online support, and beleive me this has a whole host of challenges on the Wii) and Wii motion plus (where we were pretty much a launch title for the hardware). It also had to have the same content as the PS3 and 360. In some ways I think it likely did suffer from over-ambition, and likely didn't get to be as polished as the team would have liked. If we let you down on this, then I'll apologise. We do learn from everygame done, and the members my team inherited from the VT2009 team have brought that experience to this project.

    Right anyway, positive thoughts :P

    We're going all out on SSR, and yes that includes on Wii. In fact there are a couple of Wii specific things that haven't been mentioned yet, now how is that for teasing. Keep an eye on Sega's website

    ---
    S0L
    ---

  5. #305
    Senior Member SonicWild's Avatar
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    It is true, video game developers make mistakes on ported games. Thats why they learn from their mistakes and try to fix it on the next game. What did SST not have on the Wii? Online. What did VT2009 have on the Wii? Online. I understand thats a pretty dumb thing to compare due to the fact that online for the Wii wasn't announced for 3rd Party developers until half-way through the SST development, but its the only one I could think of.
    ........This has got to be one of my longest posts yet.....

  6. #306
    Senior Member Black_Diamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S0L View Post
    Ok Mr Legend, apology accepted :P

    You do have a valid point where people need to scope their games for the platform. That's why the Wii demo shown was running slow, we were (and still are!) in the process of optimising the art, the physics and other elements of the game for the Wii hardware.

    What we wanted to do - and the same's gone on in our other games, is ensure that if you bought the Wii version, you were getting the same game as the PS3 or 360 version. You think about it, we've attempted something that really is tricky on Wii. We've got unique characters and vehicles, huge tracks, loads of special effects and an All-Star move per character. That's quite a lot to hold in a console that has a fraction of the memory...!

    Mind you we're pulling it off on DS - so I beleive it's doable :P

    Online missing in SST Wii is one of those things we've never heard the end off. That's why it was top of my list of things to include on SSR. The truth of the matter is when we started SST, there was no online on Wii... It got announced mid-project, and by that point it was a massive risk to add it. You've got to remember each game has a budget and timeframe, and adding the online would have meant the game not meeting either.

    Especially when if you consider at the time, it wasn't even guarenteed that there would be an audience for it either. We'd already decided the important thing on Wii was ensuring it was easy to get into and set up multiplayer games for relatively in-experienced players (and here, I[m thinking of my parents! - they'd never owned a console in their life till the Wii!). Certainly you can complain SST didn't have online, but I don't think you can complain the quality wasn't there elsewise.

    VT2009 was a tricky project for us, especially on Wii. You've got to remember that it was the first time we'd implemented support for new tech (so the Online support, and beleive me this has a whole host of challenges on the Wii) and Wii motion plus (where we were pretty much a launch title for the hardware). It also had to have the same content as the PS3 and 360. In some ways I think it likely did suffer from over-ambition, and likely didn't get to be as polished as the team would have liked. If we let you down on this, then I'll apologise. We do learn from everygame done, and the members my team inherited from the VT2009 team have brought that experience to this project.

    Right anyway, positive thoughts :P

    We're going all out on SSR, and yes that includes on Wii. In fact there are a couple of Wii specific things that haven't been mentioned yet, now how is that for teasing. Keep an eye on Sega's website

    ---
    S0L
    ---
    *Psst* Hey. How come Miis aren't gonna be playable on that game? XD
    Currently awaiting......Whatever.

  7. #307
    Senior Member ShadowLegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S0L View Post
    Ok Mr Legend, apology accepted :P

    You do have a valid point where people need to scope their games for the platform. That's why the Wii demo shown was running slow, we were (and still are!) in the process of optimising the art, the physics and other elements of the game for the Wii hardware.

    What we wanted to do - and the same's gone on in our other games, is ensure that if you bought the Wii version, you were getting the same game as the PS3 or 360 version. You think about it, we've attempted something that really is tricky on Wii. We've got unique characters and vehicles, huge tracks, loads of special effects and an All-Star move per character. That's quite a lot to hold in a console that has a fraction of the memory...!

    Mind you we're pulling it off on DS - so I beleive it's doable :P

    Online missing in SST Wii is one of those things we've never heard the end off. That's why it was top of my list of things to include on SSR. The truth of the matter is when we started SST, there was no online on Wii... It got announced mid-project, and by that point it was a massive risk to add it. You've got to remember each game has a budget and timeframe, and adding the online would have meant the game not meeting either.

    Especially when if you consider at the time, it wasn't even guarenteed that there would be an audience for it either. We'd already decided the important thing on Wii was ensuring it was easy to get into and set up multiplayer games for relatively in-experienced players (and here, I[m thinking of my parents! - they'd never owned a console in their life till the Wii!). Certainly you can complain SST didn't have online, but I don't think you can complain the quality wasn't there elsewise.

    VT2009 was a tricky project for us, especially on Wii. You've got to remember that it was the first time we'd implemented support for new tech (so the Online support, and beleive me this has a whole host of challenges on the Wii) and Wii motion plus (where we were pretty much a launch title for the hardware). It also had to have the same content as the PS3 and 360. In some ways I think it likely did suffer from over-ambition, and likely didn't get to be as polished as the team would have liked. If we let you down on this, then I'll apologise. We do learn from everygame done, and the members my team inherited from the VT2009 team have brought that experience to this project.

    Right anyway, positive thoughts :P

    We're going all out on SSR, and yes that includes on Wii. In fact there are a couple of Wii specific things that haven't been mentioned yet, now how is that for teasing. Keep an eye on Sega's website

    ---
    S0L
    ---
    Still not sure which system I'm buying it on but I'm sure it'll be good. I honestly do appreciate you visiting the forum, haha, and like I said, despite the crap I've given this game (and you guys over the course of you making the game)....I always knew I'd end up buying it. Even if just to get to see some of these characters in action again.

    Good luck with the finished product.

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  8. #308
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    There's something about having a developer post about the game that makes me not even interested in general speculation.

  9. #309
    Senior Member SpongeAlex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXTimelessXx View Post
    There's something about having a developer post about the game that makes me not even interested in general speculation.
    Is it because they know everything about it?
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  10. #310
    Senior Member Mighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXTimelessXx View Post
    There's something about having a developer post about the game that makes me not even interested in general speculation.
    Gotta give the guy credit for getting down in the trenches and facing feedback directly.

    The game is look good, though I'll be making my decision most likely based on the demo. I do hope there are still some big surprises left in store for the game.
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