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Thread: Was the series ready for Cartoons and Comics back then?

  1. #31
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    None of all that matters though.

    This might have a basis of truth. At least the mini-series project could have been been pitched as to test her market value. You see, the SOA game you speak of went did have at one point a storyline that would include Sally. However, by the time the mini-series was over (June 1995) that storyline had already been replaced by another, which did not include her (before April 1995 - Sonic Saturn). As such, by the end of mini-series publishment and when the final numbers poured in, there was nothing worth testing. She had already been written out long before.
    This is assuming that they were testing her marketability for a single game, and not because they had interest in putting her in games in the future--not necessarily specifying which or when that'd be.


    2. Sally's life was spared within Endgame because SEGA had numerous projects they were working on that featured her and the other Freedom Fighters.

    This is a blatant lie though. Sally had already been written out from the SOA project in early 1995 and endgame came out in 1997. The only other project Sega was working on was Sonic Adventure. I like the word "numerous" most. I wonder if that was your own input.
    Again, keeping her around doesn't mean they had a particular game planned, but that they were interested in using her for future titles. But even if we were to ignore this and simply focus on the scrapped titles involving her, it's apparent through those alone that SoA (like I said earlier) did not view what was established in Spinball as an isolated story. It was intended to be viewed as part of the SoA story which is why SoA projects in the future would feel no qualms trying to add them in future games in the first place.


    You didn't answer what I asked before. If they cared that much, then why include her off-model pink version? Spinball adding the FFs was only to promote the comics and the show.
    Again you're asserting your opinion and standards on SoA by arguing they didn't care about the character simply because of her design. A design which I might add matches the initial comics and SatAM pilot where she was pink. There's already enough to point that what was introduced in Spinball was not intended to be viewed as an isolated story. Sally being pink does not change this. Your opinion that art style would immediately spell this is again forcing your opinion onto SoA and proclaiming it some sort of universal standard.


    You have no clue what it was like in 1998. It was huge. People thinking the Adventures ruined the franchise and made Sonic a joke were not there to see what was going on in 1998 through 2000.
    Oh it was a big event for the Sonic community. But Sonic failed to regain his status as a household name, and sort of faded as a pop cultural icon at around that time. It'd be wrong to blame SA entirely. The Saturn was a weak period for Sonic and SEGA in general, a cartoon hadn't come out for some time and once SA came out, Sonic underground was their idea for further marketing him. It just didn't pick up and transitioned poorly to things like comic media compared to SatAM. It had more episodes than SatAM but only ran for 1 season. Archie didn't even bother touching SU with a 10 foot pole. The story mythos that evolved from Sonic Adventure didn't really move very well. The mythos was and still is designed primarily around it's gameplay, and how often the games hit the shelf.



    Not that I'm denying the uncanny plot, because it's very alike, but SOA giving Bioware Archie comics is a rumour as far as I know. Got a source on that?
    My first thoughts when reading about proclamations of Bioware and Archie or whatever was, why does it matter? SEGA caring or not caring about Bioware right now doesn't change that back then, SoA integrated elements from the show/comic into their mythos.
    Last edited by xXMikoXx; 12-10-2011 at 04:27 PM.

  2. #32
    Senior Member RedMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXMikoXx View Post
    This is assuming that they were testing her marketability for a single game, and not because they had interest in putting her in games in the future--not necessarily specifying which or when that'd be.
    You're the one assuming there were other projects, when there are no whiffs that is the case. Fact is, there was one game and if they were testing Sally's market value for a game, then that had to be it. What ifs are not fact, Miko.

    But even if we were to ignore this and simply focus on the scrapped titles involving her, it's apparent through those alone that SoA (like I said earlier) did not view what was established in Spinball as an isolated story. It was intended to be viewed as part of the SoA story which is why SoA projects in the future would feel no qualms trying to add them in future games in the first place.

    Again you're asserting your opinion and standards on SoA by arguing they didn't care about the character simply because of her design. A design which I might add matches the initial comics and SatAM pilot where she was pink. There's already enough to point that what was introduced in Spinball was not intended to be viewed as an isolated story. Sally being pink does not change this. Your opinion that art style would immediately spell this is again forcing your opinion onto SoA and proclaiming it some sort of universal standard.
    Proof of this. I've put forward proof of what I've said. None of what I wrote is speculation. However, that's what your reasoning reeks of.

    My first thoughts when reading about proclamations of Bioware and Archie or whatever was, why does it matter? SEGA caring or not caring about Bioware right now doesn't change that back then, SoA integrated elements from the show/comic into their mythos.
    They didn't.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
    You're the one assuming there were other projects, when there are no whiffs that is the case. Fact is, there was one game and if they were testing Sally's market value for a game, then that had to be it. What ifs are not fact, Miko.
    The "what if" as you like to call it, is supported by Archie workers saying it was SEGA that said no to the idea and SEGA who was interested in Sally being in a game. But it doesn't matter. Even if we again ignore this


    Proof of this.
    I outline it in the very quote:

    "It was intended to be viewed as part of the SoA story which is why SoA projects in the future would feel no qualms trying to add them in future games in the first place."


    The proof is that SoA had no qualms considering and even developing to some extent games that show comic/cartoon elements. If they had wanted to communicate that Spinball should be interpreted as an isolated story, they wouldn't have done that. The evidence available simply does not support that your sentiments are reflective of SoA's. Your only basis for it is a weak "well Sally was pink" excuse, even though she was pink in the early comics and the cartoon pilot.


    I've put forward proof of what I've said. None of what I wrote is speculation. However, that's what your reasoning reeks of.
    Concluding that SEGA didn't intend to communicate that they were incorporating SataM/Archie elements into their storyline simply because Sally was pink involves a lot of speculation. It assumes for one, that SoA actually cared about that sort of thing when establishing what was truly part of their storyline. This is again you projecting how much something like that would mean to you onto them. Plus again...she was pink in the initial comics and SatAM's pilot. Brown Sally came later.
    Last edited by xXMikoXx; 12-10-2011 at 06:30 PM.

  4. #34
    Senior Member RedMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXMikoXx View Post
    The "what if" as you like to call it, is supported by Archie workers saying it was SEGA that said no to the idea and SEGA who was interested in Sally being in a game. But it doesn't matter. Even if we again ignore this
    Too bad their word makes no sense when timeline and game development are enquadrated. There is no proof of these "numerous" projects. Prototypes of those "numerous" projects would have surfaced by now. The several SOA employees that have ratted out Sega's inner works would have spoken about it right now as well. The only thing you have is some statement made by a third party person, which is either lying or not informed about things. I don't care which is which. Sega having "numerous" projects going on is a myth.

    I outline it in the very quote:

    "It was intended to be viewed as part of the SoA story which is why SoA projects in the future would feel no qualms trying to add them in future games in the first place."


    The proof is that SoA had no qualms considering and even developing to some extent games that show comic/cartoon elements. If they had wanted to communicate that Spinball should be interpreted as an isolated story, they wouldn't have done that. The evidence available simply does not support that your sentiments are reflective of SoA's. Your only basis for it is a weak "well Sally was pink" excuse, even though she was pink in the early comics and the cartoon pilot.

    Concluding that SEGA didn't intend to communicate that they were incorporating SataM/Archie elements into their storyline simply because Sally was pink involves a lot of speculation. It assumes for one, that SoA actually cared about that sort of thing when establishing what was truly part of their storyline. This is again you projecting how much something like that would mean to you onto them. Plus again...she was pink in the initial comics and SatAM's pilot. Brown Sally came later.
    That doesn't prove anything. I want solid proof. Links with quotes of people related to SOA (not Archie, wtf did they know compared to SOA employees) saying how important Sally-kins was or how she was in these "numerous" projects. Like the ones I provided, about every single thing I've said. Everything else is speculation on your part and I am not going to accept your opinion on the matter as proof.
    Last edited by RedMenace; 12-10-2011 at 07:45 PM.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Theadvisor1234's Avatar
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    I come to this subforum to see some stuff on Sonic cartoons and comics, and all I find is a rousing game of RedMenace vs. The World.
    If you give a good idea to a mediocre team, they will screw it up. If you give a mediocre idea to a brilliant team, they will either fix it or throw it away and come up with something better...If you arenít experiencing failure, then you are making a far worse mistake: You are being driven by the desire to avoid it. -Ed Catmull,

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
    Too bad their word makes no sense when timeline and game development are enquadrated. There is no proof of these "numerous" projects. Prototypes of those "numerous" projects would have surfaced by now.
    They already have. SEGA-16 was an example as was Sonic Mars. You can call Mars an extension of 16 but it showed multiple occasions where the company was interested in again, using ideas from the cartoons and comics. The fact SEGA had would do this alone provides plenty of evidence against Spinball being intended to be perceived as an isolated storyline. If they wanted to communicate that it was an isolated story they wouldn't think to make more games to put them in, let alone put one iota of effort into making that reality because SEGA itself would have known the story intended to be isolated.

    The several SOA employees that have ratted out Sega's inner works would have spoken about it right now as well. The only thing you have is some statement made by a third party person, which is either lying or not informed about things.
    What several SoA employees have indicate Spinball was intended to be isolated story? And please ask them, should you find any, if it was intended to be an isolated story, why SEGA would on at least 2 occasions try integrate these elements in a game again?


    That doesn't prove anything. I want solid proof.
    It demonstrates very well that the game was not intended to communicate be an isolated storyline. If it were, they would not have dedicated any interest in making anymore games that took from the same elements. They made at least 2 attempts to put them back in a game which would be very counter-intuitive to a company that aimed to communicate Spinball's story was isolated. The evidence is a hell of a lot more solid than assuming they wanted the game to be understood as an isolated story simply because Sally was pink like she was in the early cartoons and comics. THAT is not solid proof and again relies on far more speculation which at it's core is you placing your value for the artistic style and shoving it on SEGA .
    Last edited by xXMikoXx; 12-10-2011 at 08:24 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theadvisor1234 View Post
    I come to this subforum to see some stuff on Sonic cartoons and comics, and all I find is a rousing game of RedMenace vs. The World.

    That's oddly an appropriate title for half of these topics.
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  8. #38
    Senior Member RedMenace's Avatar
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    Yeah I agree, enough is enough. I provided proof of what I said. As I've said, I'm not going to discuss opinion on facts. Over and out.

  9. #39
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    That's all they needed for the cartoon series (Adventures Of) and the story books based off of it. It was simple and worked beautifully. It established the tone intended for the franchise: fun, colourful, fast, funny, and light.

    Quote Originally Posted by thesoniczone11 View Post
    By "ready", I meant was there enough material to adapt. I mean, All they had was Sonic = Hero, Tails = His best friend and sidekick, Robotnik = Evil Scientist wants to rule the world and robotize everything, and theres animal friends that they save, along with certain animal friends that Are Actual Friends of Sonic. That was it. Only 3 main characters, and a few side characters. And Robots.

  10. #40
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    In my opinion, Sally, Rotor, Antoine, and later Bunnie were created by Sega for the Archie Sonic comic books before the Sonic Sat AM cartoon was released.

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