View Poll Results: What are your thoughts regarding "Automation"?

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  • Thereís more Automation then required, and needs to be balanced out.

    85 59.44%
  • Automationís fine the way it is people are making too much of a fuss about it.

    27 18.88%
  • It feelís like im playing a movie!

    20 13.99%
  • I dislike automation but im willing to forgive it this one time.

    11 7.69%
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Thread: Automation and You - A Feedback thread regarding the Sonic 4 Saga

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zepaladin View Post
    like everything in life (and especially in Sonic games), it's close to (if not) impossible to please everyone. Lets look at a few aspects:

    1) the automation of the levels: i could go on and on and on about how games have (mostly) been directed at casual gamers as of late, with overal difficulty levels going down over the years (achievements earned for completing basic actions, tutorial levels, little hints and helps everywhere. I dont remember there being any pitfall warnings in old sonic games at least.....or HELLO! I AM OMOCHAAAAAOOOO! Of course as the game industry slowly changes to please less dedicated players, stuff is bound to get easier. This is ONE way to see it. a second one would be that Sega (as shown lately) is having monetary difficulties (money problems) and might not have the resources to spend on the making of a Sonic level composed only of grand levels, filled with puzzles, well elaborated and long (the standart for long being for example, carnival night zone from S3&K, Egg Rocket Zone act 1 from Sonic Advance 1 and maybe classic planet wisp from SG). The third possibility being simple lazyness. It could also of course be a simple marketing strategy to launch games more frequently to make more money faster.

    2) Difficulty in sonic games has always been.....how would i put it.....dubious...
    im not saying its a bad thing but at least for me i usually dont even notice there is a difficulty option in sonic games.. i mean sonic isnt the kind of game where you can easyli change the difficulty. Why? well...how would you do it? you can increase the number of enemies and spikes and traps and whatnot....but thats about it. you cant increase the damage output of the enemies since in sonic there is no health bar and reducing the amount of lives avakiliable would probably seem unfair to some people. For example back in sonic 2 or 3 i never played in other difficulty other than the default one.... tho i noticed after trying easy that there was some facilitism at least special-stage-wise.

    I dunno, it feels to me like sonic shouldnt even have variable difficulty to begin with.... it feels like the kind of game that should have a moderate difficulty with some hard parts here and there...... that being how the old games were. But as i wrote in 1) the casualisation of the market makes it so that sonic games are easy with a moderate part here and there instead. Casual players probably wont complain, normal mid-tier players (such as myself) might not complain and harcore gamers might or might not complain, since for hardcore gamers sonic isnt even about the difficulty in the first place but (at least as of late) more about the nostalgia. the only thing i see hardcore players doing in sonic games are speedruns, and i dont see them complaining about the games difficulty on that point, since they simply adapt to it. This is their way of having a "serious\hardcore challenge" in a Sonic game.....making a better time that other people.


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  2. #72
    Senior Member hypersonic2560's Avatar
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    I agree with WolfI.
    Difficulty of sonic games always came when speed running them. I really like that style.


  3. #73
    Senior Member Saberclaws's Avatar
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    Who wouldn't ?



    It's the ultimate challenge that take's use of everything the player has learne'd thus far, knowing the surrounding's and mastering your abilities so you can do the best time possible!
    It was alway's one of the thing's i love'd about sonic, every level has it's own "flow" it's up to the player to explore every possibility hidden in the level so he can come up with an proper "tackle" on the level .
    I want Sega to balance automation,to me it still feels out of porpotion, i do (unfortunatly) understand that these days, some people like to turn on a game, just for the immediate sence of fun, they no longer want to get "addicted" to the game, but rather a game they can turn on and off whenever it suit's them best. (Altho i find myself wanting to get a big budget PC just to be able to play heavy stuff).
    I see Sonic as one of those game's that is really easy to master, it may take a while for newcommer's but i am quite sure any individual can "master" the basics with not all that much effort put into it, and when they get the hang of the game, Ooh the possibilities are endless! im quite sure they would even rather have an game that enfasizes on what the hedgehog can do rather then having the automation pushing the player foward!
    I do think that Sega can get trough this just fine with their own classic "core", as i believe it should pretty much sactisfy both fanbases if given the proper time and research into it.

    Difficulty-wise im taking the Generations example, tacking bosses on Hard mode? it offered little to no challenge, i mean, the Death egg robo only took a few extra more hits! Sure he move'd faster, but he didn't had any other moves and was quite predicable! S ranking it on my very 1st attempt, if it were to have another extra phase or whatnot, it could be alot more intresting, same goes for other bosses all around, they don't really feel more challenging, they only take longer to take down.
    What i was thinking off, was for Sega to bring down automation as much as possible, balance it out so we could take a sence of speed by using the surroundings towards our advantage, a little bit of speed booster's after though bits of platform to keep the player going.
    Artificial booster's went a long way in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, because the level's were so much bigger! In the case of Carnival Night act 2, the balance was flawless! The level was huge and you had alot of booster's after having went trought alot of platforming! So booster's felt like, they belonged in the level (especialy with each booster having its gimmicks, at least they had some more input into it).

    If Sega were to build an Sonic 4 Episode 3, giving al the level layouts towards Sonic's full capabilities i would be sure, that on the long run, they would gain alot from that. Because newcommer's would experience the full "content" of what the game has to offer, in the long run, wouldn't everyone rather have an stimulating game that feel's while the player control is a must in order to perform well, then a game than having every now and again a skip a chunk of the level?
    Sonic has underwent alot due to boost, but didn't people praise Sega for an very estimulating (Modern) take on the level's? They were alot of fun, the boost gimmick actualy felt adequate! Because the level's were built for you to have alot of platforming involve'd making cautious use of the boost, but they also had gimmick's were, only trought experience a player could find themselves able to keep the boost up, the balance here was actualy, pretty good! and i would like to see all that put into this game.
    An adequate balance where the player can use the surroudings to their advantage, and make them feel rewarded with that sence of speed, encouradge player's to explore and make them feel like if they put enought thought into it, they can make alot of wacky things without that need of "automated" speed!

  4. #74
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    Saberclaws, what a great post.

  5. #75
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    Well, I just came up with a small idea to expand on the contents of the OP of this topic. It is about homing attack chains. May not be automation, but hey, this is a suggestion topic, is it not?

    Personally, I do not mind the HA chains at all. I did grow up with the classics, but in spite of that, I still am tolerant on the Homing attack in Sonic 4. In terms of badnik HA chains, though I do not mind them, I have a few suggestions.

    First, instead of having Bubbles make up HA chains, why not make them different and varied per stage? You know, like SaberClaws' idea of different boost pads per level and such. So, basically, the HA chains would be different in terms of badniks per level. Also, another suggestion would be to have two different kinds of badniks make up a HA chain, like making a bee like badnik and 2 hovering bird badniks make up one HA chain.

    Also, I would like to suggest that the badniks in the HA chains do more than float around in one spot. Have some badniks in a HA chain fire lasers at Sonic, make homing shots with a crosshair aiming at Sonic, drop small mines, puff up smoke that can drain Sonic's amount of rings, fire something at Sonic that does not harm him, but slow him down (even with the homing attack, which range lessens when hit by whatever hits Sonic to slow him down), or maybe even move out of the way or become intangible for a second, causing Sonic to miss them before he can hit them.

    Also, having different obstacles for Sonic to deal with while trying to go through HA chains, like lasers firing nearby and maybe bombs coming out of a wall or ground or even make blocks or something that can block Sonic's way when trying to use the homing attack. That could add to the challenge. Also, in some areas, make the badniks that make up an HA chain, or some badniks within that chain, move around slowly or quickly in a circle or in some directions, which may make it less easier to make it through a HA attack unless timed right.

    Well, just wanted to share these suggestions on this topic.
    Last edited by Prodigy Z; 04-17-2012 at 08:22 PM.
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  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamerstreak View Post
    Well, I just came up with a small idea to expand on the contents of the OP of this topic. It is about homing attack chains. May not be automation, but hey, this is a suggestion topic, is it not?

    Personally, I do not mind the HA chains at all. I did grow up with the classics, but in spite of that, I still am tolerant on the Homing attack in Sonic 4. In terms of badnik HA chains, though I do not mind them, I have a few suggestions.

    First, instead of having Bubbles make up HA chains, why not make them different and varied per stage? You know, like SaberClaws' idea of different boost pads per level and such. So, basically, the HA chains would be different in terms of badniks per level. Also, another suggestion would be to have two different kinds of badniks make up a HA chain, like making a bee like badnik and 2 hovering bird badniks make up one HA chain.

    Also, I would like to suggest that the badniks in the HA chains do more than float around in one spot. Have some badniks in a HA chain fire lasers at Sonic, make homing shots with a crosshair aiming at Sonic, drop small mines, puff up smoke that can drain Sonic's amount of rings, fire something at Sonic that does not harm him, but slow him down (even with the homing attack, which range lessens when hit by whatever hits Sonic to slow him down), or maybe even move out of the way or become intangible for a second, causing Sonic to miss them before he can hit them.

    Also, having different obstacles for Sonic to deal with while trying to go through HA chains, like lasers firing nearby and maybe bombs coming out of a wall or ground or even make blocks or something that can block Sonic's way when trying to use the homing attack. That could add to the challenge. Also, in some areas, make the badniks that make up an HA chain, or some badniks within that chain, move around slowly or quickly in a circle or in some directions, which may make it less easier to make it through a HA attack unless timed right.

    Well, just wanted to share these suggestions on this topic.
    That's another great point.

    I have even sent a private PM to Ken regarding the boosters/chains design.

    What I really feel is that in classic Sonic games we really had people that were PASSIONED by Sonic you know. These small details make all the difference for a true Sonic lover, and are the difference between brilliance and just another Sonic release.

  7. #77
    Senior Member hypersonic2560's Avatar
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    I agree with Flamerstreak. They should be kinda like Unleashed's HA chains....just not as cheap..


  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypersonic2560 View Post
    I agree with Flamerstreak. They should be kinda like Unleashed's HA chains....just not as cheap..
    Exactly. It feels cheap. That's the word I was looking for.

  9. #79
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    Just one question for everyone then.

    Why was the homing attack deemed necessary to be begin with? So many have quoted it was for the iPhone version, but I don't buy that as three specific Classic titles handle perfectly well with the touch controls (1, 2, CD).

    Homing attack chains shouldn't be necessary, neither should bottomless pits with homing attack chains across them. More interactive scenery, perhaps, like the ziplines in Splash Hill or Hill Top Zone's cable cars, but the homing attack is just three cheap, easy kills which also conveniently get you over an obstacle. Hardly groundbreaking stuff nor necessary.

    This is part of the problem, however. Now that the automated sections are in there, how can we persaude Sega to remove them when ideas are put forward like "change the badniks in the chain" - it just doesn't change the nature of the beast enough to make the game less automated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel-JXJ View Post
    It seems like Dimps is purposefully running into the most blatantly obvious flaws and bad decisions with Sonic 4, every single one of them.
    Copley's View: Sonic 4, Episode I & II In depth View & Analysis.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copley Hill Zone View Post
    Just one question for everyone then.

    Why was the homing attack deemed necessary to be begin with? So many have quoted it was for the iPhone version, but I don't buy that as three specific Classic titles handle perfectly well with the touch controls (1, 2, CD).

    Homing attack chains shouldn't be necessary, neither should bottomless pits with homing attack chains across them. More interactive scenery, perhaps, like the ziplines in Splash Hill or Hill Top Zone's cable cars, but the homing attack is just three cheap, easy kills which also conveniently get you over an obstacle. Hardly groundbreaking stuff nor necessary.

    This is part of the problem, however. Now that the automated sections are in there, how can we persaude Sega to remove them when ideas are put forward like "change the badniks in the chain" - it just doesn't change the nature of the beast enough to make the game less automated.
    Yes I know, we're just losing hope and going for the easier route, development-wise.

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