Silver the Hedgehog Love

[Twylis]

Hmm... Awrite. Lessee if I stil gawt dat 2010 pluck! (. .)

No disrespect to the Silver fans, but what makes you even think that Silver is worthy of being in this game? Its not even that I dislike Silver, its that he isnt an All-Star. He appeared in one crappy mainstream game and a bunch of Sonic spin-off games.

Geez, way to omit Generations, the game many consider to have redeemed him via the pretty spectacular rival battle.
Plus, y'know, the fact he's more relevant than Knuckles these days, at least as far as users of search engines are concerned. See: Google.
Numbers are a bit significant to write off.

What has Silver done to make him an important character in SEGA's history? The answer: nothing. He was a cliche character that is hated by a great deal of people with one important role in a game that ruined Sonic's reputation and helped ruin SEGA as a whole's reputation as well.

Yeah, the series was doing perfectly fine until 06 came along.
And again, Silver's fanbase is pretty large. There's a reason threads about him explode with replies within minutes over at the Sonic forum, and he's in practically every other deviantART submission featuring Sonic characters.
polarising =/= having a small fanbase

Even the likes of Blaze and Rouge have better rights to be in this game than Silver. They actually have slightly important roles and in Blaze's case, have much better reception than Silver has. Like I said, its not that I dislike Silver- I actually think he has a lot of potential- it's just that, if he isn't even an important character in his own franchise, why should he be in a game featuring SEGA's All-Stars? He isn't fit for the role of joke character like Big was, and he doesn't have any importance like Tails and Knuckles does. If there is another appearance by a Sonic character in this game, I feel that it should go to Blaze or Rouge, because no other character has really done anything to have any relevance in the series at this point.

I'll give you Blaze, but Rouge? How is she even remotely 'All-Star' material? Her debut game, SA2, focused almost entirely on Shadow - Rouge was just introduced to provide Knuckles with a (fanservicey) counterpart and help flesh out Eggman and Shadow. The only instance of her role being more than supporting in a main series game was Heroes, and even then, all anyone cared about was Shadow. Compare that to Silver - his debut game featured him as one of the primary protagonists, and the main 'new' character who was used in the same hyping manner as Shadow was prior to the game's release. Sure, he's kinda cliche in terms of story (I wouldn't say characterisation, though), but again, look at Shadow.
Now, let's count appearances:
Rouge had a playable role in Adventure 2. She was a majorish character in Battle (notably having her story before both Knuckles' and Amy's). She was played the role of Team Dark's leader in Heroes. She then had minor roles in ShTH, 06, Chronicles, Colours DS, Free Riders, and Generations - plus a playable role in Rivals 2. As far as noncanon multiplayer stuff goes, she's also had Riders, Zero Gravity, and...yeah. Notably, she was never playable in the Olympics series - instead appearing as a boss-type character, which is rather notable when one considers even Vector got a playable role, and Silver starting with the second instalment.
Now, Silver. He was one of the three characters to get a story in 06, and was the primary focus of it - the game sucking says nothing about his importance to the series. He got a playable role in both Rivals games, and got that stellar boss fight in Generations (and being deemed a 'rival' cements an importance to Sonic himself, which is something Rouge lacks). Plus, like Rouge, he briefly appeared in Colours DS. Outside the canon, he's had playable roles in Zero Gravity, Free Riders, Secret Rings, the second and third Olympic instalments, and he was one of the few characters to receive an Arthurian counterpart for Black Knight (albeit only available in multiplayer). He's also had cameos in Super Smash Bros. Brawl alongside Tails and Knuckles, SEGA Superstars Tennis with Big and Blaze, and Puyo Puyo 15th Anniversary in Sonic Style mode with Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Blaze.
The edge Silver has becomes apparent when you consider he's had five years less than Rouge to churn out appearances.

[SMS Skull Leader]

He was a cliche character that is hated by a great deal of people with one important role in a game that ruined Sonic's reputation and helped ruin SEGA as a whole's reputation as well.

The bolded may be too much. To be fair Sega ruined themselves when they screwed a lot of people by making short lived add-ons such as the Sega CD or the 32X, or how to forget when they released the Saturn earlier than the original date, basically flipping the finger at both developers and retailers who were caught off guard by the sudden move. 06 was a mistake and I'm not going to defend it, however a title that flops was not as bad as the incidents I just described.

[Beat]

Hmm... Awrite. Lessee if I stil gawt dat 2010 pluck! (. .)

And it begins!

Geez, way to omit Generations, the game many consider to have redeemed him via the pretty spectacular rival battle.
Plus, y'know, the fact he's more relevant than Knuckles these days, at least as far as users of search engines are concerned. See: Google.
Numbers are a bit significant to write off.

He had a decent boss battle. Whoopity doo. I dont see how that can redeem him, it certainly didnt seem to have much importance to Sonic Generations as a whole. This is what I'm talking about here as far as importance goes. Would Sonic Adventure 2 be the same without Shadow? not a doubt. Would Sonic Generations be the same without Silver as a boss? Yeah I'd say so. While Generations did without a doubt show that Silver has some pretty cool moves, I still dont feel he has much importance to the series.

Yeah, the series was doing perfectly fine until 06 came along.
And again, Silver's fanbase is pretty large. There's a reason threads about him explode with replies within minutes over at the Sonic forum, and he's in practically every other deviantART submission featuring Sonic characters.
polarising =/= having a small fanbase

While the series was going down the drain because of games like Shadow, that was nowhere near as bad as the damage caused by '06. As for Silver, he was met with generally mixed reception. He was considered annoying by many, and lots of people considered him a very cliche character. His gameplay was heavily criticized as well, but seeing as his boss battle in Generations fixed a lot of the potential gameplay problems he could have (should he be in another game) such as lack of speed, I wont go too far into that. While I agree numbers dont lie, and Silver has a very vocal fanbase, you've got to remember that Silver has nearly as many haters as he does fans.

I'll give you Blaze, but Rouge? How is she even remotely 'All-Star' material? Her debut game, SA2, focused almost entirely on Shadow - Rouge was just introduced to provide Knuckles with a (fanservicey) counterpart and help flesh out Eggman and Shadow. The only instance of her role being more than supporting in a main series game was Heroes, and even then, all anyone cared about was Shadow. Compare that to Silver - his debut game featured him as one of the primary protagonists, and the main 'new' character who was used in the same hyping manner as Shadow was prior to the game's release. Sure, he's kinda cliche in terms of story (I wouldn't say characterisation, though), but again, look at Shadow.

Well let's think about it this way: Rouge has had three main supporting roles in the main series of games, while Silver has had only one role in a main series game, however that was as a main character. I'd say three supporting roles compared to one major role nearly equal out, especially when you consider those supporting roles aren't nearly as bad as Silver's role in '06. While he may have had a huge role in a game, if his role is one that lives in infamy, I dont think it helps your case of proving his worth to the franchise.

And you cant just dismiss Rouge's role in Sonic Adventure 2 like that because when you think about it she really was important to the story. She was just about as important as any of the other characters in SA2. While I dont really consider Rouge "All-Star" material either, I'm a lot more for her inclusion than Silver.

Now, let's count appearances:
Rouge had a playable role in Adventure 2. She was a majorish character in Battle (notably having her story before both Knuckles' and Amy's). She was played the role of Team Dark's leader in Heroes. She then had minor roles in ShTH, 06, Chronicles, Colours DS, Free Riders, and Generations - plus a playable role in Rivals 2. As far as noncanon multiplayer stuff goes, she's also had Riders, Zero Gravity, and...yeah. Notably, she was never playable in the Olympics series - instead appearing as a boss-type character, which is rather notable when one considers even Vector got a playable role, and Silver starting with the second instalment.
Now, Silver. He was one of the three characters to get a story in 06, and was the primary focus of it - the game sucking says nothing about his importance to the series. He got a playable role in both Rivals games, and got that stellar boss fight in Generations (and being deemed a 'rival' cements an importance to Sonic himself, which is something Rouge lacks). Plus, like Rouge, he briefly appeared in Colours DS. Outside the canon, he's had playable roles in Zero Gravity, Free Riders, Secret Rings, the second and third Olympic instalments, and he was one of the few characters to receive an Arthurian counterpart for Black Knight (albeit only available in multiplayer). He's also had cameos in Super Smash Bros. Brawl alongside Tails and Knuckles, SEGA Superstars Tennis with Big and Blaze, and Puyo Puyo 15th Anniversary in Sonic Style mode with Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Blaze.

The game sucking has all to do with it. This is a game about SEGA ALL-STARS. If a character's only major appearance is one that lives in infamy, why should he have the right to appear in the game? Besides '06, he had a playable role in the Sonic Rivals games, and then appeared in a bunch of spin-offs or had minor roles in big name games like Generations, He's become the Sonic equivalent of Waluigi, albeit with a more important first appearance. All he does now is get non-canon spin-off roles and cameos. Rouge atleast has had three main series appearances and has had major roles in games like Sonic Battle and Sonic Chronicles. Compare that to Silver, who's only had story appearances in Sonic '06 and the Sonic Rivals games. Everything else has been non-canon spin-off stuff. While he may have had a major role in one game, considering the negative reception of the game and the negative reception of his story itself, I dont think that gives him any All-Star potential. Rouge has always been there, appearing in the stories of over 6 games, and while she may have not been the main character in any of those games, she's had main supporting roles in many of them. While Silver has appeared a lot lately, if he does nothing in 90% of his appearances, why should he even be considered "All-Star" potential?

[Beat]

The bolded may be too much. To be fair Sega ruined themselves when they screwed a lot of people by making short lived add-ons such as the Sega CD or the 32X, or how to forget when they released the Saturn earlier than the original date, basically flipping the finger at both developers and retailers who were caught off guard by the sudden move. 06 was a mistake and I'm not going to defend it, however a title that flops was not as bad as the incidents I just described.

While those certainly did tons of damage to SEGA's reputation, on the software side, SEGA was still amazing. The Dreamcast and Genesis are fondly remembered for their amazing games, and when SEGA went third party, people still thought they would be amazing third party developers. After Sonic '06, Shadow the Hedgehog, Super Monkey Ball Adventure, and Golden Axe Beast Rider, SEGA effectively destroyed three of their biggest franchises and ruined their reputation as a good third party developer. Thats why I say Sonic '06 helped ruin their reputation- It had a little help as well.

[Twylis]

He had a decent boss battle. Whoopity doo. I dont see how that can redeem him, it certainly didnt seem to have much importance to Sonic Generations as a whole. This is what I'm talking about here as far as importance goes. Would Sonic Adventure 2 be the same without Shadow? not a doubt. Would Sonic Generations be the same without Silver as a boss? Yeah I'd say so. While Generations did without a doubt show that Silver has some pretty cool moves, I still dont feel he has much importance to the series.

A boss battle unequivocally gives him more importance than just another statue to save is what I'm saying.
Rouge is stewing with the extras who don't contribute to the game beyond fanservice whilst Silver is amongst Shadow and Metal actually providing something to the game's entertainment value.

While the series was going down the drain because of games like Shadow, that was nowhere near as bad as the damage caused by '06. As for Silver, he was met with generally mixed reception. He was considered annoying by many, and lots of people considered him a very cliche character. His gameplay was heavily criticized as well, but seeing as his boss battle in Generations fixed a lot of the potential gameplay problems he could have (should he be in another game) such as lack of speed, I wont go too far into that. While I agree numbers dont lie, and Silver has a very vocal fanbase, you've got to remember that Silver has nearly as many haters as he does fans.

Relentless hordes of haters didn't stop Shadow.
It also bears noting that Silver is much better received in Japan, which is something Sumo'd take into consideration if they plan on localising (similar case with Cream, really - but disputably with even more hate than Silver elsewhere).

Regarding 06 being damaging, though, it really was quite the opposite if you ponder it - as it pretty much taught Sonic Team that hyperrealism and rushing things are both pretty stupid ideas. Unfortunately, it also convinced them the fanbase hates the characters in general, and yeeeeeah now we're contending with Sola Sonica
BUTYEH ZAT'S IRRELEVANT RLY

Well let's think about it this way: Rouge has had three main supporting roles in the main series of games, while Silver has had only one role in a main series game, however that was as a main character. I'd say three supporting roles compared to one major role nearly equal out, especially when you consider those supporting roles aren't nearly as bad as Silver's role in '06. While he may have had a huge role in a game, if his role is one that lives in infamy, I dont think it helps your case of proving his worth to the franchise.

They don't equal out as well when you take into account Rouge's importance was on a downward decline ever since Heroes, whilst Silver's managed to maintain a strong presence in spinoffs.

Disregarding everything before 06 for the sake of comparison, Silver appeared (by cameo, playability, or otherwise) in a total of six games that Rouge had no presence in whatsoever, whereas Rouge only appeared in one that Silver didn't. Silver's playable roles also number a whopping nine, as opposed to Rouge's five - just more than half. Add in the stuff since her debut, and they tie, which is rather weak when she's been around five years longer.

And you cant just dismiss Rouge's role in Sonic Adventure 2 like that because when you think about it she really was important to the story. She was just about as important as any of the other characters in SA2. While I dont really consider Rouge "All-Star" material either, I'm a lot more for her inclusion than Silver.

Important to the story =/= important to the game itself
Professor Gerald was important to the story, too.

The game sucking has all to do with it. This is a game about SEGA ALL-STARS. If a character's only major appearance is one that lives in infamy, why should he have the right to appear in the game? Besides '06, he had a playable role in the Sonic Rivals games, and then appeared in a bunch of spin-offs or had minor roles in big name games like Generations, He's become the Sonic equivalent of Waluigi, albeit with a more important first appearance. All he does now is get non-canon spin-off roles and cameos. Rouge atleast has had three main series appearances and has had major roles in games like Sonic Battle and Sonic Chronicles. Compare that to Silver, who's only had story appearances in Sonic '06 and the Sonic Rivals games. Everything else has been non-canon spin-off stuff. While he may have had a major role in one game, considering the negative reception of the game and the negative reception of his story itself, I dont think that gives him any All-Star potential. Rouge has always been there, appearing in the stories of over 6 games, and while she may have not been the main character in any of those games, she's had main supporting roles in many of them. While Silver has appeared a lot lately, if he does nothing in 90% of his appearances, why should he even be considered "All-Star" potential?

Yeah, and where were all of Rouge's roles? Before 06. Ergo, before Sonic Team decided to focus almost exclusively on Sonic. If Silver's appearing in tons of spinoffs and Rouge isn't, I'd say he's the more important one, since neither of them possess relevance to the main series at this point.

Not to mention that it's difficult to work one's way into the main plot when you live 200 years into the future.

Regarding the game sucking having 'all to do with it', we're discussing the inclusion of Silver the Hedgehog himself, not 06. Big's fishing gameplay wasn't exactly stellar either, but as a character in a racing game, he worked out fine.

[Beat]

Come ooooon Twylis it's like 4 o clock now

I cant debate when I'm exhausted

I'll reply tomorrow or sumthin

[ShenBlue92]

as much as I appreciate Silver, I don't want him playable...for the reasons Beat said. Blaze has all the rights to be the only All stars modern character, considering her good reception. She's also female, and the last game only had 4 females.
The perfect thing would be Blaze playable as well as the 3 Chaotix...then having Rouge as a FREE DLC for people who buy SA2 port

[DarkFailure]

I think we should be able to play as Silver!
The more characters, the better (if they play somewhat differently!).

[BlueSpeedsFan92]

I like Silver but I don't want too many Sonic characters in the game.

[Generations]

While I don't play racing games very much, seeing Silver race is a funny, yet at the same time, I good idea.
Mainly for the fans of Silver, I will happily sign this.