Why

[Revenge of Joe Mushashi]

quote="Revenge of Joe Mushashi"]

I didn't say it wouldn't be good, I just don't think its a brilliant commercial move is all. It could be good, I don't know. To me it looks like a generic game that anyone could make.

The reason people clamor for Shenmue or NiGHTS is because they're much more recent and mainstream series than Alien Syndrome, as hard as that may be to believe. Its easier for people to connect to them because many played them while they was still new, and can remember the overwhelming experiences of joy, wonder and discovery that accompanied them. An elite few people have played this game, that us, the original, and even fewer cared about it. You don't see petitions to bring back Swords of Vermillion either do you? We're not just picking on Alien Syndrome. There are entire vaults of cr@p or generic SEGA titles that I'd rather not see the light of day again. No one wanted this title to begin with, and I really don't think that excludes you, though I may be wrong, and very few really care either way now that its here. Its frustrating that this game is in the works, while much more recent games (or projects) like Vectorman, Shinobi, Jet Set Radio, Skies of Arcadia or Planet Gunsmoke aren't getting the time of day.

How do you know no one wanted the title? You done a poll or something? No you didn't so you shouldn't make such a silly statement. Secondly this title is an update as well as an reintroduction to gamers who have obviously never played the original(or you wouldn't say it was crap)Sega does this with various titles in their history including NIGHTS which i wager not many people have played either but its not going to stop them releasing a game last seen 10 years ago especially on a platform that wasn't popular.
Secondly the last time ALIEN SYNDROME appeared was on the SEGA AGES label about four years back so your no one wants the game opinion isn't valid. If YOU know how Sega works when it comes to game titles you would know this. ALIEN SYNDROME was a big hit in the arcades and on the systems it appeared on yet Sega only followed it up with a psudo sequel called ALIEN STORM which was modeled after GOLDEN AXE than AS.Just because YOU didn't play the game and its not your glorified SHENMUE sequel you dismiss anything that comes up.

Thirdly SHENMUE is Sega Japan's call not Sega west's so that money would have NEVER been used on any of the games you just mentioned.
Forthly SHENMUE and TRIGUN are in complete different scenarios to ALIEN SYNDROME is as is VECTOR MAN thanks to legal issues in the case of the latter.

SHINOBI is being worked on as we speak so you don't need to worry about that game(s).
ALIEN SYNDROME is part of a stratedgy to reintroduce classic IP to a new audience which is why its being made in the first place. Its got nothing to do with it keeping money from sequels that aren't being made down to finacial issues IE they cost too much and didn't see a good return. AS did get a good return but never saw a sequel they thought it would be right to reintroduce the title and turn it into a genre similar to the original but totally different. So stop complaining about the game keeping other titles down because that is a juvenile idealogy to think that it has done since the game and various budgets that sega allocates to departments do not work in that way. Sega West has its budget and had classic IPs to go with it and that's how its being used. That does not include the budget for new IP and it certaintly doesn't affect the budgets for games in Japan since that done differently.

1) I will take a poll. But in the three years I've frequented these boards I've never heard a soul complain about this series abscence. Hence my statement.

What's the point? half of the people if not all never heard of this game so its moot. they're all young fans into Sonic or into the latter or well known
sega games and not the arcade and earlier titles.

2) I never said it was crap, I said that I think this one looks like a generic game that any shmuck without a life could make.

Its how it plays that counts.

3) Every SEGA game under the suns bound to end up in that franchise sooner or later. Its been goin on for a friggin decade now.

I don't understand this reply. Please clarify because it does not resonate.

4) NiGHTS sold just fine thank you very much. Not the juggernaut it was intened to be is all. You of all people should know that. Sells have nothing to do with it, especially for a series this old. What they look at is demand. Demand for NiGHTS has been high forever.

1) I never said anything about NIGHTS sales so what are you talking about? Stop putting words in my mouth.
No they do not. NIGHTS have been in demand for years but Sega never pushed Yuji naka and co to do a real sequel. The same can be said for countless games but sega for whatever reason don't do any sequels to it.
The only reason sega is making NIGHTS now is they want to get a better position in the market which is why they are bringing in IP that they were famous for which i explained to you already but choose to ignore it. sega's problem is that they are too creative as a company they have ton of ideas for games which in part they had to durimg the master system years where they were the only real supplier of games for that system before the early nineties. apart from the big money makers attention for games that did relativly well may not get a sequel until years later or not at all,it all depends on who is at the dev teams and if they want to make it.

5) I've never glorified Shenmue. I enjoyed it, but I've never (that I remember) spoke of it any better than Panzer Dragoon, Shinobi, Rez or any other series I like. You're taking your frustration with the board's opinions on games out on myself and Shenmue.

No i'm not. All i hear from certain sega fans is SHENMUE and so forth like its the only thing the company has done which you repeated in your previous reply. i more than anyone like to see SHENMUE again but like Sonic its not the only game the company has ever done. Which is why games like GALAXY FORCE and ALIEN SYNDROME will get the time of day too.

6) I never said they should spend the money on the games listed, I said people are frustrated because this is coming out and not their beloved titles.

No one is frustrated about ALIEN SYNDROME its just you and Ryan

7) Shenmue and Trigun are in a different scenario. They ain't gettin made yo. This game is. I'm perfectly aware of the issues with Vectorman, however that didn't stop them from trying a few years ago. I'm perfectly aware that its not SOA's call, but I think that if SOE can do SEGA Rally, one of SEGA's biggest ips, both critically and commercailly, I don't see why JSR or Panzer Dragoon can't be done over here if SEGA Rally or Golden Axe can. I wasn't thinking with shinobi, sorry.

SHENMUE 3 HAS been made the only thing stopping its release is politics IE which system to release it for,the money it cost as a series as a whole and so on. It's one of the MIA games i told you about on a different topic.
Situation has changed since satomi came on board and bankrolled SHENMUE ONLINE so the future looks a bit brighter. Just don't expect Sega to start kicking down your door and tell you every game they got planned in the future. it takes time and SHENMUE 3 will eventually come out. You can blame Microsoft fans for that by the way on why it hasn't been released yet. as for VM that got stopped for several reasons like the similarity of HALO,bad reaction and so forth even though the game was actually ok and not that bad.

8 ) I didn't say its about money. We both know that I'm fairly aware of the financial situation of SEGA. However, I don't think it'll sell well, and its hard to reintroduce something that won't sell.

are you? then why did you say in your last replies...

I wasn't implying that this will be the most wretchid thing to come out of SEGA's loins, I'm just saying that it doesn't seem to be a brilliant move on their (that is, SEGA's) part. Instead, why not take this game's budget and spend it on advertising NiGHTS or Yakuza, supposing it hits the States (God willing

If your suppose to know about sega finances then you wouldn't make such a silly mistake. budgets do not work like that in a company like sega or any multimega corp company for that matter.

9) I didn't say a word about this game keeping other titles down. I complained becasue the game is coming and others aren't. I realize that SEGA doesn't run on my opinion, but, I reiterate, most threads I see regarding SEGA sequels seem to concur with my opinion.

You kinda implied it,mate. and as for the opinions,are you kidding me?
Like Sega is still a loser company and Sega sucks and all that jazz despite the obvious changes of the company and its new line up of strong games? Does that concur with your opinion?

[jonboy101]

1) I will take a poll. But in the three years I've frequented these boards I've never heard a soul complain about this series abscence. Hence my statement.

What's the point? half of the people if not all never heard of this game so its moot. they're all young fans into Sonic or into the latter or well known
sega games and not the arcade and earlier titles.

I know what you mean, but the point would be to determine how successful the game would be. If there’s no interest on the SEGA boards then it probably won’t do any better in the real world. If it makes you feel better, and to even the odds, I’ll let you pick the site to throw the poll on.

2) I never said it was crap, I said that I think this one looks like a generic game that any shmuck without a life could make.

Its how it plays that counts.

True.

3) Every SEGA game under the suns bound to end up in that franchise sooner or later. Its been goin on for a friggin decade now.

I don't understand this reply. Please clarify because it does not resonate.

That was in response to your comment about the game being on SEGA AGES. Sorry I didn’t make myself clearer, but I was in a hurry.

4) NiGHTS sold just fine thank you very much. Not the juggernaut it was intened to be is all. You of all people should know that. Sells have nothing to do with it, especially for a series this old. What they look at is demand. Demand for NiGHTS has been high forever.

1) I never said anything about NIGHTS sales so what are you talking about? Stop putting words in my mouth.
No they do not. NIGHTS have been in demand for years but Sega never pushed Yuji naka and co to do a real sequel. The same can be said for countless games but sega for whatever reason don't do any sequels to it.
The only reason sega is making NIGHTS now is they want to get a better position in the market which is why they are bringing in IP that they were famous for which i explained to you already but choose to ignore it. sega's problem is that they are too creative as a company they have ton of ideas for games which in part they had to durimg the master system years where they were the only real supplier of games for that system before the early nineties. apart from the big money makers attention for games that did relativly well may not get a sequel until years later or not at all,it all depends on who is at the dev teams and if they want to make it.

Sega does this with various titles in their history including NIGHTS which i wager not many people have played either but its not going to stop them releasing a game last seen 10 years ago especially on a platform that wasn't popular.

I thought that you were saying it sold like crap. I personally feel that they should do their more recent franchises like Jet Set Radio, Panzer Dragoon and Vectorman first, while people still remember them. That makes advertising and hyping a whole lot easier.

5) I've never glorified Shenmue. I enjoyed it, but I've never (that I remember) spoke of it any better than Panzer Dragoon, Shinobi, Rez or any other series I like. You're taking your frustration with the board's opinions on games out on myself and Shenmue.

No i'm not. All i hear from certain sega fans is SHENMUE and so forth like its the only thing the company has done which you repeated in your previous reply. i more than anyone like to see SHENMUE again but like Sonic its not the only game the company has ever done. Which is why games like GALAXY FORCE and ALIEN SYNDROME will get the time of day too.

I didn’t say one thing about my opinion on Shenmue. I said people clamor for it. While I may be people, like your later post will indicate, my opinion doesn’t necessarily coincide with that of the general populace.

I’m not saying it’s the only thing they’ve ever done, but its just my opinion that some games would be more advantageous to SEGA than others. Unfortunately it is my opinion that Alien Syndrome belongs to the latter category.

6) I never said they should spend the money on the games listed, I said people are frustrated because this is coming out and not their beloved titles.

No one is frustrated about ALIEN SYNDROME its just you and Ryan

True, but, again, they are frustrated with the lack of progress other games in the back burner are making.

7) Shenmue and Trigun are in a different scenario. They ain't gettin made yo. This game is. I'm perfectly aware of the issues with Vectorman, however that didn't stop them from trying a few years ago. I'm perfectly aware that its not SOA's call, but I think that if SOE can do SEGA Rally, one of SEGA's biggest ips, both critically and commercailly, I don't see why JSR or Panzer Dragoon can't be done over here if SEGA Rally or Golden Axe can. I wasn't thinking with shinobi, sorry.

SHENMUE 3 HAS been made the only thing stopping its release is politics IE which system to release it for,the money it cost as a series as a whole and so on. It's one of the MIA games i told you about on a different topic.
Situation has changed since satomi came on board and bankrolled SHENMUE ONLINE so the future looks a bit brighter. Just don't expect Sega to start kicking down your door and tell you every game they got planned in the future. it takes time and SHENMUE 3 will eventually come out. You can blame Microsoft fans for that by the way on why it hasn't been released yet. as for VM that got stopped for several reasons like the similarity of HALO,bad reaction and so forth even though the game was actually ok and not that bad.

It has? I’d say the concepts and scripts ect have all been worked out, but I don’t think its been programmed and is just sitting on a bookshelf collecting dust. I didn’t say that it won’t come out. My worry is that when it does, no one will care anymore.

I know the situation with VM PS2. The point I was making that they certainly have the ability to make another one in the series.

]

8 ) I didn't say its about money. We both know that I'm fairly aware of the financial situation of SEGA. However, I don't think it'll sell well, and its hard to reintroduce something that won't sell.

are you? then why did you say in your last replies...

I wasn't implying that this will be the most wretchid thing to come out of SEGA's loins, I'm just saying that it doesn't seem to be a brilliant move on their (that is, SEGA's) part. Instead, why not take this game's budget and spend it on advertising NiGHTS or Yakuza, supposing it hits the States (God willing

If your suppose to know about sega finances then you wouldn't make such a silly mistake. budgets do not work like that in a company like sega or any multimega corp company for that matter.

But SEGA, like all companies, has a finite amount of money. Their advertising department seems to be a bit neglected. I felt and feel that this is money wasted, and should instead be spent elsewhere. I’m saying that when they make there budgets, instead of say 100 million going to development (random number) and ten million going to advertising (also random), they take the 5 million or so dollars going into this game and pop it into the advertising budget. So now its 95 million dev and 15 million adv. A juvenile suggestion, to be sure, but it was one made out of the duel frustrations of this game being made and other games not being advertised. Look at what happened to Yakuza. That game could have been a hit for SEGA if they’d’ve spent money pushing the game, instead of shoving it out of the nest and telling it to fly.

9) I didn't say a word about this game keeping other titles down. I complained becasue the game is coming and others aren't. I realize that SEGA doesn't run on my opinion, but, I reiterate, most threads I see regarding SEGA sequels seem to concur with my opinion.

You kinda implied it,mate. and as for the opinions,are you kidding me?
Like Sega is still a loser company and Sega sucks and all that jazz despite the obvious changes of the company and its new line up of strong games? Does that concur with your opinion?[/quote]

Touché.


I really don’t think we’re going (or going to go) anywhere here. I see where you’re coming from (I think). I, unlike you, however don’t have any sentimental attachment to this game and am looking at this commercially. I’d probably be just as argumentative if some :):):):):):) asked why make another Panzer game. I guess we’re just from different generations and our ideas as to what is a waste of time and what’s not are two different things.

[Revenge of Joe Mushashi]

1) I will take a poll. But in the three years I've frequented these boards I've never heard a soul complain about this series abscence. Hence my statement.

What's the point? half of the people if not all never heard of this game so its moot. they're all young fans into Sonic or into the latter or well known
sega games and not the arcade and earlier titles.

I know what you mean, but the point would be to determine how successful the game would be. If there’s no interest on the SEGA boards then it probably won’t do any better in the real world. If it makes you feel better, and to even the odds, I’ll let you pick the site to throw the poll on.

3) Every SEGA game under the suns bound to end up in that franchise sooner or later. Its been goin on for a friggin decade now.

I don't understand this reply. Please clarify because it does not resonate.

That was in response to your comment about the game being on SEGA AGES. Sorry I didn’t make myself clearer, but I was in a hurry.

SEGA AGES is a series to celebrate classic sega games and revive certain sega games as well or cash in on games that is popular. There's a good chance that a SEGA AGES game will mean that there are plans to revive the franchise if it is one if it appears on that label.

I didn’t say one thing about my opinion on Shenmue. I said people clamor for it. While I may be people, like your later post will indicate, my opinion doesn’t necessarily coincide with that of the general populace.

I’m not saying it’s the only thing they’ve ever done, but its just my opinion that some games would be more advantageous to SEGA than others. Unfortunately it is my opinion that Alien Syndrome belongs to the latter category.

Not really. ORTA was a flop,oh it did overcome its budget but it didn't do as well as it should have done. So there is no advantage in releasing another PANZER DRAGOON game right now if the game isn't drawing in consumers now is it? The same goes for SHENMUE it has to have a good great sales because of its expenses. Historically ALIEN SYNDROME did well for the company. Its not one of the premier games like SHENMUE but it was an arcade title that did sell well on arcade and several game systems. Sega wants to be the big third party and they don't know necessarly how to do it because of the current difference between the western and japanese markets. In japan sega KNOWS how to create a game that sells for the japanese but in the west their traditional arcade stuff didn't work. All the hardcore sega games flopped on the xbox. With the western shift Sega is reviving old games to be redone by western companies who bid for the game they want. AS got picked up by Totally games. That doesn't mean the games you want won't get made its just that AS is part of a first wave of the Sega updated games. ALIEN SYNDROME is a double game because it may draw in older gamers who remember the title and it will attract new gamers if it intrests them. There is no pre conceived idea of the game because it hasn't been seen for years so its an old game dressed up as being a brand new title. Wheather it will succeed is another thing but just don't tell me its a waste of money that it got made. CRUSH i consider to be a waste of money because it was a game that was obvious for the NDS not the PSP. Unless it does well in Europe which i fell it shall then that mistake may not be so obvious.

6) I never said they should spend the money on the games listed, I said people are frustrated because this is coming out and not their beloved titles.

No one is frustrated about ALIEN SYNDROME its just you and Ryan

True, but, again, they are frustrated with the lack of progress other games in the back burner are making. [/quote]

Well if they actually brought the games in the first place then we would have them wouldn't we? This site is very misleading because we have people(not yourself or a few others we know well) saying i want a PDSAGA or whatever yet SHADOW outperforms that game in sales when everyone knew it was crap? now whose buying it? Don't tell me its just the casual gamers and sonic fans,it is also the same people clamouring for their true sega game and keep shouting about it because its expected of them. no one hardly on these forums seem to exhibit a knowledge of sega games of the past its the DC games that they keep going on about. I'm sorry but the DC was a unique experience from any company because its the only system that had a sucession of AAA games within its first three years and it wasn't just from Sega but Capcom as well. no system has ever had that. yet these forums are full of people going on about the DC era and going on that Sega ALWAYS made AAA games on their systems in the way they did with DC. the truth is this,I suspect at least half the people didn't play sega that much and only got the system when it was going for nine bucks at wal mart and playing the games they realised what they missed. Then they come around here demanding this and that and heavily influenced by penny Arcade shout out sega sucks slogans. No real sega fan would act like that IMO yeah they know that the company is not at its best but they would never say the company is crap. Have you ever seen team andromeda or Ryan slag off Sega as a company? No. but you've seen many others who have and they also happen to be the ones who keep going on about the DC and stuff. If they have said my first system is DC i wouldn't mind but they're not they are making out like they are true sega fans.Its sad how crap this site has become because of those lot. I can tell you that the sega fans who are not satisfied about Sega's 2002/2005 run are either back playing their old sega systems or at the arcades insega related gaming if they are not playing another game from other companies. But i can guarantee you one thing they defend the company even if its producing :):):):). That's what's missing here. In your case your like TA in expressing disapointment about games not coming out and ones that are which you don't feel is a good move but you to my knowledge aren't condeming sega as a whole and saying they are crap. So even though we disagree on certain things i at least know you are a real fan of sega.

You also have to be aware of the false demand. because people say they want a game doesn't mean they will buy the game. Judging from the falsies in this site i can see why sega would be hesistant to release sequels to certain games.

7) Shenmue and Trigun are in a different scenario. They ain't gettin made yo. This game is. I'm perfectly aware of the issues with Vectorman, however that didn't stop them from trying a few years ago. I'm perfectly aware that its not SOA's call, but I think that if SOE can do SEGA Rally, one of SEGA's biggest ips, both critically and commercailly, I don't see why JSR or Panzer Dragoon can't be done over here if SEGA Rally or Golden Axe can. I wasn't thinking with shinobi, sorry.

SHENMUE 3 HAS been made the only thing stopping its release is politics IE which system to release it for,the money it cost as a series as a whole and so on. It's one of the MIA games i told you about on a different topic.
Situation has changed since satomi came on board and bankrolled SHENMUE ONLINE so the future looks a bit brighter. Just don't expect Sega to start kicking down your door and tell you every game they got planned in the future. it takes time and SHENMUE 3 will eventually come out. You can blame Microsoft fans for that by the way on why it hasn't been released yet. as for VM that got stopped for several reasons like the similarity of HALO,bad reaction and so forth even though the game was actually ok and not that bad.

It has? I’d say the concepts and scripts ect have all been worked out, but I don’t think its been programmed and is just sitting on a bookshelf collecting dust. I didn’t say that it won’t come out. My worry is that when it does, no one will care anymore.

No the game exists. What people forget about SHENMUE is the fact that the game's engine is unique to that title,its not based on any exisitng game engine so like YAKUZA and many EA sports titles all they would have to do is create the charactersand revive the AI around that. Locations for the game and all that has been completed and modeled a long time ago for the future installements. Sega AM2 was already programming SHENMUE 3 back in 2001/2002 but the game didn't see release because of Sega's situation finacially and the way the intended platform was doing in Japan as well as their games not selling well on their intended platform in the states. expensive productions were put on hold until they could become finacially stable again which happened at 2004 which was the reason why Sega could afford to put 20 million dollars for the game YAKUZA. The problem was that SHENMUE has gone in another direction because of the growing Chinese market and they want to exploit that further delaying the game's release.its a gamble IMHO was a bad move because the future of the series may rely on this game's performance in china which they have suffered a setback by closing their MMOP division. because of the extra moolah plowed onto a brand new game and it doesn't do well satomi won't hesistate to pull the plug permently but sega wanted a peice of the MMOP market of china and they so far haven't succeded.

I know the situation with VM PS2. The point I was making that they certainly have the ability to make another one in the series.

How can they if they're dealing with legal problems? The legal troubles over SPACE CHANNEL 5 delayed any plans of the third game until it was resolved.

But SEGA, like all companies, has a finite amount of money. Their advertising department seems to be a bit neglected. I felt and feel that this is money wasted, and should instead be spent elsewhere. I’m saying that when they make there budgets, instead of say 100 million going to development (random number) and ten million going to advertising (also random), they take the 5 million or so dollars going into this game and pop it into the advertising budget. So now its 95 million dev and 15 million adv. A juvenile suggestion, to be sure, but it was one made out of the duel frustrations of this game being made and other games not being advertised. Look at what happened to Yakuza. That game could have been a hit for SEGA if they’d’ve spent money pushing the game, instead of shoving it out of the nest and telling it to fly.

That's SOA's fault not sega as a whole. YAKUZA did very well in UK it was advertised as well. Like i said it has nothing to do with budgets it just doesn't work like that. The advertising money is expendable money because they don't make a financial gain off it. Sega japan advertises well. Very well. certain titles always get good openings in the charts before its real test to see if the game can build on its opening but the japanese are aware of the title. in Europe Sega has a reasonable marketing campaign. At least you have a good magazine coverage and bill board coverage with YAKUZA,SONIC RIVALS,TOTAL WAR:MEDIEVAL 2 and FOOTBALL MANAGER as well as the TV campaigns for SPARTAN,SHADOW and SONIC HEROES. It s no coincidence that they all did well in the UK and europe. But SOA has never had a good campaign ever since Kalinske left sega back in 96. so its no wonder why games are suffering down there in america. So SOA nreally needs to over come this problem and fast.

I really don’t think we’re going (or going to go) anywhere here. I see where you’re coming from (I think). I, unlike you, however don’t have any sentimental attachment to this game and am looking at this commercially. I’d probably be just as argumentative if some :):):):):):) asked why make another Panzer game. I guess we’re just from different generations and our ideas as to what is a waste of time and what’s not are two different things.

well that what i was saying all along. if someone said to you i don't see why sega is wasting money on PANZER DRAGOON then you would have the same reaction,wouldn't you? I'm sorry but Sega has more games than the obvious titles and the way they work these games would be released one year and only see a sequel five years down the line while other games under the radar would get plenty of sequels. the games guaranteed to get sequels would be the games they heavily rely on to get them. That's a silly way to work but sega works like that all the time. I'd say to you don't worry about what game is coming out because from my impression its Sega as a whole company that is revisiting its past and bringing out games tied to its former glory. Whether they be fan favourites classic titles or fincially succesful games i'd wager that we shall se a lot of "old freinds" returning in the next five years be it from Japan and the west.

[jonboy101]

Panzer was a flop because XBOX was in Japan, the series' breadbasket. If SEGA launched it on GCN or PS2 it would've done alot better for itself. I'd be willing to bet the next panzer will hit Wii for that reason. Not 360.

The hardcore arcade games flopped on XBOX because of the system itself, XBOX owners are rather picky in their genres. SEGA, in their rush to make deals with MS (pack in games, money for shen 2 and god only knows what else) threw as much on the system as possible instead of analyzing which audiance their game would do best on. For example JSRF would've done better IMO on GCN. Crazy Taxi 3 on PS2 (given the sales of the original on the system), and so on and so forth. Now I realize that the dev studios got to pick their platform, but I'm sure a higher power made the decisions a little more MS leaning than would've otherwise been the case.

It truly is a shame with DC. I'd say that that salvo of good games is a result of having the AM studios outside of SEGA proper. Allows for greater artistic independence and all. You'll notice that the quality in many games (not all) went downhill, not after DC died, but when SEGA Sammy folded the companies back in with SEGA proper. I think outsourcing the games is a move in that (proper) direction again. We'll see when this game (and others) comes out. The thing right now is, not all the studios they're giving these games to are AAA, or even A.

Heres hopin the SEGA Europe forums are better.

And yes, you're right. I'm not condemning SEGA as a whole. Not to be self absorbant or anything, but I think I was rather understanding in 03-05, and found a few gems during those years (Otagi, OutRun). I am pleased with 06, so far in 07 and am very excited about the prospects for Q3 07 on. That list of upcoming SEGA games is quite nice. Best I've seen in a very long time.

I hope we see Shen 3, but its not looking good unless they plan to throw it on Wii...or PC. What with PS3 sales and all. I guess they could throw it on 360, but we saw how that turned out in 02. Wii, I'm kind of hesitant with, because, well it really doesn't seem to loan itself to the series very well.


I hope we see several old friends. I can only pray I'm acquainted with some. Of course I suppose now I have an oppurtunity to scope out series I'd've not touched otherwise.

[jonboy101]

SHINOBI is being worked on as we speak so you don't need to worry about that game(s).

game(s)? More than one?

[Revenge of Joe Mushashi]

Panzer was a flop because XBOX was in Japan, the series' breadbasket. If SEGA launched it on GCN or PS2 it would've done alot better for itself. I'd be willing to bet the next panzer will hit Wii for that reason. Not 360.

The hardcore arcade games flopped on XBOX because of the system itself, XBOX owners are rather picky in their genres. SEGA, in their rush to make deals with MS (pack in games, money for shen 2 and god only knows what else) threw as much on the system as possible instead of analyzing which audiance their game would do best on. For example JSRF would've done better IMO on GCN. Crazy Taxi 3 on PS2 (given the sales of the original on the system), and so on and so forth. Now I realize that the dev studios got to pick their platform, but I'm sure a higher power made the decisions a little more MS leaning than would've otherwise been the case.

I agree. Sega even agrees. but understand there was a big hatred for Sony at the time so no one in sega was truly thinking sensibly. Imagine that your a hardware producer and you also make games. YOU know you make the best games but no one gets it for whatever reasons. To survive you make games for other people including your biggest rival. Now what would you do? A lot of them chose the system that was close to a Sega console the Xbox and the fact they wanted to help them defeat the company they saw destroying their console. Remember the biggest sega fans aren't those who buy the products its the people who are in the company themselves. Think how many companies as big as sega let their Dev teams do anything they want including ignoring the system with the biggest market share for nearly two years. That's why at least with any game designer the guys who do all the work sega is not only respected for their portfolio but respected because of their buisness methods. Don't get me wrong Sega done stuff that any evil coporate are acused of but they are the good guys basically and their bad actions are few and far between. Which is why companies like SPORTS interactive and the Creative assembly aggreed to be brought out.

Anyway BOT , No one saw that Xbox owners would not buy a sega game. no one saw that Ms would flop in Japan. its better to judge in hindsight but you must remeber the time.
i think i already summed the XBOX problem by saying blame Xbox or microsoft or whatever in previous posts anyway. The fact is their efforts weren't appreciated and a lot of planned games failed to materilise. The problem is you can blame the semi independent dev teams who decided to back Xbox instead of the PS2 and you can also see what's happened to them. UGA,Smilebit,WOW and Hitmaker all went down the wayside. its only Sonic Team,AV and AM2(not that it would have affected them that much since they also backed the Xbox) survived because they backed the other systems or backed the important systems and not just one which the others did.

It truly is a shame with DC. I'd say that that salvo of good games is a result of having the AM studios outside of SEGA proper. Allows for greater artistic independence and all. You'll notice that the quality in many games (not all) went downhill, not after DC died, but when SEGA Sammy folded the companies back in with SEGA proper. I think outsourcing the games is a move in that (proper) direction again. We'll see when this game (and others) comes out. The thing right now is, not all the studios they're giving these games to are AAA, or even A.

They're not meant to create AAA games,that's the point. They're just intially there to raise profile on Sega and the defunct IPs. Of course the games are designed to be good and if they make serious money that's a bonus again but this is a good idea if you think about it. Sega recognized the change in the western markets in as early as 2003 and they were going to address this problem by making more western style games again because they were concentrating on the Japanese market more than they usually do. The problem was that satomi came in and the western style games like OUTRUN 2 didn't do bad but not great either. What Satomi has done is allowed to lift the pressure of Sega Japan in creating a great universal game that america would like and let the sega management employ those who are creating great western style games by those who do know,the westerners themselves. The games of classic Sega IP made with a western twist will hopefully get the company in a foothold in america rather than just having Sonic do all the work which has happened. Face value this new initiative has worked,SUPER MONKEY BALL ADVENTURES became a hit. Also because SOA has more fredom they can also commison their own AAA titles like the IRONMAN games the ALIENS deal and so forth,the original titles coming from them are sega west's AA or AAA titles. The reason i said its a problem is that Sega Japan won't have to work as hard as they need to. Notice its not Sega lack of quailty that is the sole problem its the lack of quaility of the japanese market as a whole. The game's meet japanese expectations but not westerners. The divide has become bigger ever since the Xbox made the scene. The japanese games market are just not coming out with the ideas they need to anymore because they don't have to. They're still selling the money. The strange thing about this is that Sega like Capcom recognises this problem and has gone after western studios to create IP or update old IP for them. Imagine what the implication would be if a Sega clasic IP updated by monolith let's say was a huge hit in Japan? Would it wake the japanese games scene up that the fact a westerner has made a better game based on a japanese created IP better than they could? Watch out for ALTERED BEAST for the answer...actually scrath that off SEGA RALLY REVO and many others will answer that a lot sooner.

Heres hopin the SEGA Europe forums are better.

well you know my stance on that.

And yes, you're right. I'm not condemning SEGA as a whole. Not to be self absorbant or anything, but I think I was rather understanding in 03-05, and found a few gems during those years (Otagi, OutRun). I am pleased with 06, so far in 07 and am very excited about the prospects for Q3 07 on. That list of upcoming SEGA games is quite nice. Best I've seen in a very long time.

That's why i'm still talking to you not meaning to be aroggant. I dunno if its a long term Sega fan thing or not but you can tell whose's a geniune fan of the company compared to who is not. Your criticism's come from concern and affection of the company you like and it shows. Like i said before,TA and a few others even me are not happy about SOJ lack or ability but its impossible to convey that concern when surroded by a bunch of w@nkers intent of bashing the company regardless. You say that the company isn't doing great they will use it against you so that's why i don't say much about it. its juvenile that i go to that level i should say how i want but in here and other forums you can't which is why i've slowed down posting in here and other forums where they don't need to flame or stupid stuff like that.Debate fine passitionate fine but all the slab nah.

I hope we see Shen 3, but its not looking good unless they plan to throw it on Wii...or PC. What with PS3 sales and all. I guess they could throw it on 360, but we saw how that turned out in 02. Wii, I'm kind of hesitant with, because, well it really doesn't seem to loan itself to the series very well.
That's Sega's dilemma and i'm hoping you begin to understand the politics behind the reason why SHENMUE series is delayed. What would be the right system for SHENMUE? Do they make it multiplatform or an exclusive? 360 or PS3? Wii customers are precieved to be young wold they buy a game like SHENMUE? That's a problem and the events of the next gen war hasn't help. The PS3 was expected to do well and most likely where the game would have appeared. but nintendo has messed it all up. It can't go on a system where japanese gamers are not buying the console(36o) not enough users are installed to justify a PS3 release(read the results of VF5 sales and of course the sales of the PS3 worldwide in general) and the Wii is not only a big risk but it may not be the suitable system in graphics since it doesn't seem to do GHOST SQUAD arcade perfect. Time will tell and rest on the profits of SHENMUE ONLINE.

I hope we see several old friends. I can only pray I'm acquainted with some. Of course I suppose now I have an oppurtunity to scope out series I'd've not touched otherwise.

Of course you shall just don't expect them to be recent aquaintences from the DC era(I'm not saying they won't appear just don't expect the ones you want) and also be careful what you wish for. The western intiative from sega is revival and sidegames. STREETS OF RAGE is coming but its not going to be SORthe way people want it. That's still SOJ's preogative but look at GOLDEN AXE and ALIEN SYNDROME. They're not the games like the originals they are action RPGs,unless the new SOR has some japanese involvement like NIGHTS haswhich technically its still being made by a Sega inhouse team, don't expect the games you want to be direct sequels in the same genre.

[Revenge of Joe Mushashi]

SHINOBI is being worked on as we speak so you don't need to worry about that game(s).

game(s)? More than one?

There's meant to be a japanese produced arcade game and a western made game the last i heard. I duno if its still happening that way but i definatly know the western version is being made.

[jonboy101]

SHINOBI is being worked on as we speak so you don't need to worry about that game(s).

game(s)? More than one?

There's meant to be a japanese produced arcade game and a western made game the last i heard. I duno if its still happening that way but i definatly know the western version is being made.

You know of a platform? I think the series could work well on Wii. The system needs a good hard game to hit it (assuming it'd be like Shinobi PS2)

[Revenge of Joe Mushashi]

SHINOBI is being worked on as we speak so you don't need to worry about that game(s).

game(s)? More than one?

There's meant to be a japanese produced arcade game and a western made game the last i heard. I duno if its still happening that way but i definatly know the western version is being made.

You know of a platform? I think the series could work well on Wii. The system needs a good hard game to hit it (assuming it'd be like Shinobi PS2)

You'll soon find out in time.

[jonboy101]

I agree. Sega even agrees. but understand there was a big hatred for Sony at the time so no one in sega was truly thinking sensibly. Imagine that your a hardware producer and you also make games. YOU know you make the best games but no one gets it for whatever reasons. To survive you make games for other people including your biggest rival. Now what would you do? A lot of them chose the system that was close to a Sega console the Xbox and the fact they wanted to help them defeat the company they saw destroying their console.

Well thats a weird statement. Every big name SEGA game under the sun hit PS2 save sonic in those first few years. Virtua Fighter, Sakura Taisen, Virtual-On, Shinobi and J-League. Panzer was really the only big game XBOX got. However, I believe that the XBOX games had been on PS2/GCN instead, they could've become big games ala Super Monkey Ball.

Anyway BOT , No one saw that Xbox owners would not buy a sega game. no one saw that Ms would flop in Japan. its better to judge in hindsight but you must remeber the time.
i think i already summed the XBOX problem by saying blame Xbox or microsoft or whatever in previous posts anyway. The fact is their efforts weren't appreciated and a lot of planned games failed to materilise. The problem is you can blame the semi independent dev teams who decided to back Xbox instead of the PS2 and you can also see what's happened to them. UGA,Smilebit,WOW and Hitmaker all went down the wayside. its only Sonic Team,AV and AM2(not that it would have affected them that much since they also backed the Xbox) survived because they backed the other systems or backed the important systems and not just one which the others did.

The teams were reabsorbed and merged to cut costs, AV and Sonic Team included. The only one unaffected was AM2, and even that is dubious because they technically merged back with DigitalRex didn't they?

UGA never touched XBOX. They were just too left field to keep it up. All they had going for them commericially was SEGA Rally. Its really a shame too; they were a really creative lot.

You forgot OverWorks. It merged with Wow. Funny thing though is that OverWorks was consistently pumping out hits, both critically and commercially, and save SOA Legends, exclusively for PS2. They've been one of SEGA's powerhouses for years.