To All PS3/Sonic Unleashed PS3 Owners: Imagine if Unleashed was an exclusive. - Page 2

MrFranklin · #11 10-12-2009, 03:52 PM

isn't this the same baffoon that made the thread about the Wii version being better with more disc space lol?

What's with this more disc space makes better games theme? To create content takes time, unless you cheat and put some barely compressed video / sound on there. Yeah you could take advantage of ''bluray'' but try getting a developer to spend that long on a single game to use that much space and before you start you can't just use uncompressed textures, both HD consoles only have so much memory. Yes It happens occationally that a game comes along that uses more than a Dual Layer DVD but in these cases its often when there is an insane amount of voiced dialog / FMV. Even games like Oblivion, Fallout 3, Mass Effect etc fit on 1 DVD.

However a small part of your argument is worth noting, whenever a game is made exclusively for a system to take full advantage of it, the theory is it almost always turns out better than a multiplatform game cause you are playing to the consoles strengths, your code is more specific than generalised one would think and your mindset is to squeeze every last drop out of that 1 hardware, your attention is 100% focused on 1 thing. A game focused and written for the 360 or the PS3 as an exclusive (an unfortuntely rare occurance these days as most games on either available on both consoles or console and PC) 1 of the biggest plus's I'll give to the PS3 is it does have more pure PS3 exclusives at the glance I've taken into its library.

Personally though I don't buy into the fact that the PS3 woulda been the best platform for an exclusive of this game (it's still argued, by some of the best PS3 exclusive developers - naughty dog, hideo kojima to start with that 360 versions of certain PS3 exclusives would be just as good and that real world performance ends up evening out and being mostly the same, same is backed up by companies like crytek - then you have those who dislike the PS3 and a few who dislike the 360, there are way to many half soaked ports to the PS3 - fact is exclusively depends on who opens their wallet first now, not on which is the best platform for the game - the gap between the PS3 & 360 is half that of the PS2 & Xbox1). I think Sonic Team were going to have a hard time coding for the PS3 regardless and I suspect the ingame freezing on the PS3 version is due to a weird decision to not force the game to install to the harddrive (why wouldn't they do that?) - I also think that if the 360 hadn't have had a locked framerate it would have the same unstable framerate the PS3 version has, sometimes reaching 60, other times not (again why would they unlock the framerate knowing it couldnt be consistant)

I own both versions, I prefer the 360 version cause of consistancy, the PS3 version feels smoother at many times but then falls apart like a brick distractingly. It's as if they hit a technical issue with the PS3 version, got fed up, ran out of time, were under pressure not to delay it longer, so they just unlocked the framerate and released it as is.

Sonic-The-Hedgehog · #12 10-19-2009, 01:04 PM

If Sega had added more to the game, that would have been cool, but I'm honestly content with what the game has, I don't care what anyone says, I loved each sonic game, I will say that some were almost impossibly hard in comparison but whatever...

Now back to Unleashed; The only thing i have a problem with is, ever since I downloaded the Add-on's for unleashed all I'm getting is freezing at the loading screens...
SEGA FIX THIS PROBLEM!

Noob44445 · #13 10-19-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFranklin

isn't this the same baffoon that made the thread about the Wii version being better with more disc space lol?

while you totally Bashed and Flamed a forum Member who was just asking for your help , Specify the Reason you want to Disrespect me for.
nice Trolling thought
and I never Said any thing bad to you , i was just Saying an idea never bashed or did any thing to your opinion , we were discussing about disk space and now you Bash me for no thing? not to mention other forum members?
Thx alot.

MrFranklin · #14 10-19-2009, 05:48 PM

To often do people use the word ''you're bashing me'' to defend their points.

My point is this thread is a bit daft, a PS3 exclusive Sonic game would never happen. Wouldn't generate enough profit. Having said that...

The PS3 version came out with less polish than the 360 version. It is true that either an exclusive to the 360 or PS3 might have produced better results due to development focus on that one platform. But don't go imagining that a PS3 version would blow a 360 version away. That's an urban myth - the consoles have roughly the same power especially to a developer that isnt adapt in taking full advantage of either platform.

What makes this thread a little more daft, is that the PS3's percieved extra power seems to be the bluray. More space only makes things better if you use the space, and most games don't come close to using that space.

What probably would have made the PS3 game most better would have been harddrive install so that it could stream the data more smoothly. The PS3's bluray drive is painfully slow. That extra storage space comes at a price cause bluray drives arent quite there yet.

MrFranklin · #15 10-19-2009, 06:34 PM

I think many people misunderstand in part due to false advertising what bluray means for gaming. So let's try to understand:
1. A dual layer dvd actually ends up storing just under 8gig yet many of the same games on xbox live's games on demand service only use 4-6gig... a bluray disc stores 25gig and a dual layer stores 50gig Go on PSN, do they have full retail games up there that use so much space? Even movies have trouble using that much space on the disc, they have to use over the top bitrates on the video and uncompressed audio that average sound systems can't even handle to fill the disc.

2. What tends to use the most space? Note that typically games with a lot of voiced dialog like MGS 4 for example with its cutscenes that run almost an hours worth of audio at times. High res high bitrate video thrown in to fill the disc too. However games like Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3 which have a lot of short dialog fit on 1 dvd, so its only in extreme cases that this extra disc space is actually required. In this event, it may mean a gamer switching a disc every couple of hours (big deal) or the same mandatory install from 2 discs (Forza 3) to the 360, which you'd have to do anyway with the PS3.

3. The extra space under normal circumstances shouldnt make graphics better, unless a harddrive install is forced which it usually is with the PS3 due to the slow bluray drive, which can of course improve texture loading times (I'm sure you've seen the texture blur-in issue by now commonly known on unreal 3 engine).

4. High res textures use more space, but under normal circumstances (I know ID tech 5 does something fancy)
Aren't capable on such low console memory. So bluray storing super size textures is a moot point for the rest of the engines out there.

5. As we've said FMV prerendered cutscenes in 1080p would use a nice deal of space, I'm sure along with dialog this is what fills up a final fantasy disc.

6. Now getting back to Sonic Unleashed? Is Sonic Unleashed long cutscenes with lots of voiced dialog? (No)... Is Sonic Unleashed full of FMV sequences (No it has about 2 I think, one of which is very short)

Noob44445 · #16 10-20-2009, 05:09 AM

that is not a reason to call me a bafoon.
in a Thread that isn't about me or not mine.

I never bashed the ps3 any ways
i was just talking about the wii in another thread
and Here you called me a bafoon in a like i said thread not mine and not about me.

MrFranklin · #17 10-20-2009, 09:46 AM

ah I appoligise to this thread owner for mixing him with you and meant no offence to you

Just slightly frustrated at ignorance.
And yes they are points and everyones points are welcome... just a little tired of people complaining about quality on the Wii. It's not what you sign up for with the Wii - its quantity. I own one and I've already reached that assessment.

PS3/360 I also own, and I find it a litte offensive that Sony have managed to convince its fans, that the PS3 is amazingly space age powerful when in reality its real world performance ends up being similar to the 360. Especially as on paper the PS3 is actually handicapped slightly over the 360 in some areas and stronger in others. To suggest an exclusive to the console with the smallest gaming market share seems kinda strange. It has more chance of being exclusive to the 360 or Wii before the PS3 but truthfully the common sence thing these days is to go multiplatform and this is especially important for Sega whenever technically capable because its a 3rd party publisher. However whats more strange is yourself and this chap here, seem to think that disc space is the major limiting factor.

No the biggest limiting factor with the PS3 is that its best games are usually the ones programmed specifically for it. Because its an unorthdox machine to program for some developers don't do so well with it. So in this case assuming Sonic Team spent 4 years writing the hedgehog engine specifically for the PS3 (honestly who would do that?) and then wrote the game purely for the PS3 and mastered the PS3 in everyway then yeah Unleashed would have been better on PS3 than it was. But not because the PS3 has bluray, not even because it has different specs. But because they'd have probably took the time to give it mandatory installs, worked longer on it and balanced the framerate (things they could have and should have done anyway instead of rushing it out the door after the 360 version when it clearly had major issues), the extra time might have equaled more levels perhaps or content which probably still wouldn't have filled more than a dual layer dvd. ''Now what the PS3 does have is some fantastic miracle worker 1st party developers secured - you will find its their skills, not the PS3's power that make the games great. The biggest limiting factor with the Wii, is that it is somewhat undesirable to build games for it for most developers who have moved on and are wanted to work within modern limits - having to remake a HD game on an inferior engine limited to some 10 year old limits must be pretty frustrating for them. When with the PS3/360/PC they work with one engine, most of the time infact nearly all the time, the Wii project gets offloaded onto a smaller team who maybe arent as passionate about the project or don't have as much time and resources dedicated to them - note that for dimps who designed the Wii versions day levels, they've been doing fairly solid 2D games and this was their first real attempt at 3D levels I believe, however the Wii game showed their style at its worst, that as seen in the still enjoyable rush series and advance 1/2 leans towards speed and little platforming (something unfavoured by many old school fans, myself included), I thought the Wii version was boring and challengeless. Then to make up for the need to make an entirely different version of the game its designed with a quick PS2 version in mind to increase profit (The PS2 being noticibly weaker than even the Wii), limiting it even more. And to put the final nail in the coffin for those who love the best of the best of graphics a console can do, many developers don't deem it neccessory to put much effort into Wii graphics for the target audience, I mean look what nintendos model example is, stickmen in Wii sports and other default party games, Simplistic graphics are promoted, I mean come on? But despite all this, even with the best effort put into a Wii game it is still going to come out no where near what people enjoy on the HD consoles because the things that are possible now often weren't possible back in the last generation, which the Wii is closest to. Some of Sega's graphically better Wii exclusive games & some of Nintendos better first party games are the best graphics and the largest levels / enviroments you are likely to ever see on the Wii, that generation of graphics was maxed out back 4 years ago. The Wii is only meant to be a short term bit of fun, its motion control is primitive and old, its power is old, and soon it will be replaced by superior graphics and superior motion control.

I tire of this whole bluray thing, its not even probably being used to its full potential yet in movies (HD content can often be produced with much smaller sizes than bluray). To suggest it as if its going to be lifechanging to a game is ridicolous and chances are it'll only matter when the PS3 is on its last legs, and PS4/720 or whatever you want to call them have been out about a year. And as for single layer dvd's being used in some cases, they don't exclude levels to save money on dvd's... Dvd's are cheap its the game development that costs the money, if its on a single layer its because the game they created isnt big enough to require a dual layer dvd so whats the point wasting one even if its cheap.